Ranking the Greats: your assistance please

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands89, Sep 27, 2009.


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  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I changed "Adversity Overcome" to "Character" and may rename it again to "Intangibles"...

    The subcategories will be loosely identified, but I don't want to get too mathematical about it, and apply %s and all that. So, there will have to be a measure of subjectivity but at least I'll know it's informed...! Ring Generalship is level of skill, athleticism, adaptability/tactical ability and strategic capability. "Durability" is in its own, lesser category.

    Does that sound fair...?
     
    Stonehands89, Sep 28, 2009
    Stonehands89, Sep 28, 2009
    #61
  2. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like it...

    On what part of "Ring Generalship" will you put the most emphasis on?

    For instance, alot of your great fighters will dictate a fight by being more mobile, some will play to their strengths by jabbing and controling ring center, some have superior defensive technique, workrate, ability to fight inside, power, combination punching...and so forth.

    It's all important as far as ranking...but some are more important than others.
     
    dpw417, Sep 28, 2009
    dpw417, Sep 28, 2009
    #62
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree, but I think that it would be best to transcend style and it's singular parts and look at how effective that fighter was in the ring. If forced, I'd probably consider how well that fighter controls the field, his game at every range, and how defensively adept that fighter is.
     
    Stonehands89, Sep 28, 2009
    Stonehands89, Sep 28, 2009
    #63
  4. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    The "Intangibles" category sounds like a great idea, and a very telling one. What truly seperates the greats. I'd go with that, Piedra.:good
     
    Sweet Pea, Sep 28, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Sep 28, 2009
    #64
  5. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And now the unveiling: Feel free to tear it up or commend it, but please critique it. This is quality control and collectively speaking, I trust your judgement...

    Here is the first draft of rankings #10 counted down to #6:

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    (15 pt must)
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    Stonehands89, Sep 29, 2009
    Stonehands89, Sep 29, 2009
    #65
  6. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stonehands89, Sep 30, 2009
    Stonehands89, Sep 30, 2009
    #66
  7. Jaws

    Jaws Active Member Full Member

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    Jaws, Sep 30, 2009
    Jaws, Sep 30, 2009
    #67
  8. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    #68
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    To be fair that's a feasible list. It seems to work. I think Burley is too high however, but I assume that the method works and has therefore placed him that high due to all the stats you input.

    I mean, the top five is as obvious as it would be placed on opinion. So I assume the stats don't lie :good

    Very intrigued to see a top 100 using this sytem.
     
    Flea Man, Oct 1, 2009
    Flea Man, Oct 1, 2009
    #69
  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burley or Ali? and why in terms of numbers and comparisons?

    I'd appreciate your thoughts on it.
     
    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    #70
  11. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I just can't see Burley that high because of the fact that he may not have even been the best fighter of the Murderer's Row, just the most reknowned, and the only one we actually have footage of.
     
    Sweet Pea, Oct 1, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Oct 1, 2009
    #71
  12. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stoney, would you agree with the following?

    "Ring Generalship properly understood is about how effective a fighter is in controlling his opponent. Whether this is done by singing and dancing, laughing and crying or laying an egg is besides the point. What should be measured is the effectiveness one has in controlling an opponent, not the method via which the control is achieved. Whether someone achieves control via defensive strategy or bumrushing a foe is equal in worth if the level of effectiveness is the same."

    As to your list, I'd like to ask, did Benny Leonard make your 1920 cut off? If he did, I'd think he'd have to be in the top 10.

    One other question, where did Barney Ross come in? Surprised someone like Jofre is ranked higher than him.
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 1, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Oct 1, 2009
    #72
  13. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    i was thinking about this heaps today but forgot my idea
     
    GPater11093, Oct 1, 2009
    GPater11093, Oct 1, 2009
    #73
  14. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Haven't had time to read the entire thread, but Ali only 11 out of 15 on ring generalship? I'd say he deserves at least 13.
     
    ChrisPontius, Oct 1, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Oct 1, 2009
    #74
  15. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like that definition. Ring Generalship should revolve around effectiveness, but I have a dilemma... I do think that skill should be factored in to some notable degree. I don't know how notable, but boxing is a skill sport before it is an "athleticism" sport and history has proven that. Pure athletes have doen well -Naseem, Ali of course, Jones of course, Foreman I, but they are exceptional. Most guys who rely on physical strength or speed or some other athletic quality or combination thereof are chased out of the gym before their 19 years old...

    I had a tough time with Benny. He did make the cut-off, but came in at 11. That surprised me too.

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    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    Stonehands89, Oct 1, 2009
    #75
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