Ranking the Heavyweights of Patterson/Liston Era

Maybe I should, as I didn't really think about the specific period and more about all-time ranking (well, other than Moore who would be much higher in this case). I still think Machen had considerably deeper resume than Williams. Folley was close, maybe I am underrating him.

 

I can’t think why you have Williams higher than Machen, Folley, Johnson and Jones? Machen did better against Liston and Williams never beat Machen! Foley beat Machen. And Doug Jones knocked out Folley.

I guess Williams beat Terrell back when he was unranked. This was about the times Terrell would lose to Johnny Gray and Wayne Bethea.

Terrell only started to rate after losing to Williams. then winning the rematch with Williams kind of aces him with more wins.

 

Jones couldn't even beat Billy Daniels and by his own admission deserved to be 0-2 against him.

Alzheimers sinking in again? I thought we already established when Terrell was knocked out by Williams, his loss to Bethea was two years prior, and his loss to Gray was three years prior. His "win" over a not 100% Williams was less than a year after his brutal TKO loss to him. It'd be much more accurate to say about Williams win "This was "about" (I assume you meant "around") the time Terrell beat Williams."

 

Fair enough

 

Not a lot to argue with there

 

the fact is Jones went 1-1 with Daniels whereas Williams went 2-0 with Daniels…but what trumps that is Jones knocking out Zora Folley! When did Williams knockout Folley?

both Folley and Williams drew with Machen. I get that. But it was Folley and not Williams who has a win over Machen.

williams cannot go ahead of men he never beat. He simply did not beat Machen or Folley. They deserve to go ahead of Williams. Jones too.

yes Williams stoppped Terrell. Then Terrell corrected this. Ray Robinson goes ahead of the guys he beat in the rematch. Ali goes ahead of Leon. A rubber match is not always necessary.

 

Williams knocking out Terrell was comparable considering Terrell also beat Folley and Jones himself while Jones lost to Folley.

Against Machen, Terrell, and Billy Daniels (their three common opponents before Williams was shot). Williams went 3-1-1 (in my opinion 4-0-1).

Jones went 1-3. And the one "win" was a razor thin SD over Daniels which Jones himself admitted he deserved to lose.

This is more than enough for me to rank Williams over Jones.

Machen and Folley never beat Williams either genius

I wouldn't say he corrected it. Williams has a brutal TKO win over Terrell. Terrell has a razor thin SD, many including myself scored the other way, over an injured Cleveland Williams.

What the **** are you on about? Are you saying if Leon won the rematch he'd rank ahead of Ali?

 

No I am saying when it comes to Williams, your logic looks just like that from where I am sitting.

Drawing with Machen cannot put Williams ahead of Machen.

Folley dew then beat Machen. Jones knocked Folley out. Machen beat Folley.

you have to put these guys quite close.

You cannot explain why Williams goes ahead of any of these guys.

 

Not even going to respond to this because it doesn't have even a semblance of sense.

Machen never beat Folley.

[QUOTE\ you have to put these guys quite close.

You cannot explain why Williams goes ahead of any of these guys.[/QUOTE]
I'd rank Machen over Williams.

Their is absolutely no serious argument for ranking Jones above Williams. As I stated with their common opponents during this era Williams is 3-1-1, imo 4-0-1. Jones is 1-4 with the sole victory being disputed even by Jones himself.

Sure he had the win over Folley but he also lost to him, and Folley had quite a few losses too, so it's not like Jones was in exclusive company.

Lavorante beat Folley and he didn't need two tries to get the job done.

Even adding Folley to their common opponents (even though Williams didn't get the chance to face him. Jones is still 2-5. Williams has the MUCH better record against these opponents. Make me laugh by stating otherwise.

You've already exposed your lack of knowledge about this era by admitting you didn't know who three contenders were.... one of whom was number 3 and in the tournament for Rocky's title.