Rare

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Baclava, Jul 29, 2013.


  1. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Again, consistent with other films I've seen of Mickey. While not the precision footwork of a Loughran or Tunney, it does once again reveal Walker's ability to move back or in and out while simultaneously unloading combinations with speed and power against taller and bigger opponents. Once again, we can see elements of what made him so successful against HWs.

    Check out Loughran-Walker again to remind yourself of what it took to deal with Mickey by this stage. If Walker had come a bit earlier, or Mike Gibbons, a bit later, watching them peak for peak at 160 might've been a lotta fun!
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I think at 35 he looks terrific ... he jabbed straight, hard and very fast when he wanted to ... in many ways he liked to muscle and mug guys like Lennox Lewis did ... he was extremely strong with excellent size .. watch him rip those body shots and uppercuts .. what was Dempsey doing at 35 other than walking around with pants pulled up to his navel ?
     
  5. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    I agree....It was a **** session..
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Madden was 34 himself when they fought.
     
  7. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    How many rounds did Madden win?
     
  8. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I found a photo of Dempsey, Baer, Jeffries, Carnera and Willard standing side by side. Either Carneras height was overrated or Willards height was underrated. Willard appears to tower over Carnera and everyone else for that matter.

    Does your contact have any clips from Louis bouts with Red Berman or Simon 1?
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Exactly, or Firpo ?
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Why don't you tell us Klompton?
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Oohh... Intrigue!
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Some of you people are off your rockers.

    What you see here is a guy who doesn't give a goddamn what the other feller is going to throw. He is absolutely dismissive to his opponent's offensive arsenal and dominating him both physically and mentally. If anything, he seems to have the cuffs on.
     
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Looks real sloppy in both clips. Nothing tight certainly. However these are films from the silent movie era and no matter how clear there is always a level of keystone cops quality about them. I am sure he looked better in person than what we are seeing here.

    I doubt Wills would fight Firpo in a manner that would not respect his punching power. Firpo was well known as one of boxings ko punchers with his right hand. He was another fighter who had difficulty finding sparring partners because of the power in his punches. Firpo was also fearless in the ring and there are several stories regarding his courage. One not so well known was that he went into His bout with Dempsey with dislocated left elbow just popped into place the day of the fight. He was in agony and the doctor wanted to cancel the bout however Firpo showed his strength by slamming his left arm as hard as he could against the table he was sitting on. This action must have been killing him but he never uttered a whimper...he just smiled with sweat pouring down from his forehead. not a talented fighter but as courageous, fearless as any man who ever entered the ring.
     
  14. Baclava

    Baclava Active Member Full Member

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    Louis vs Red Burman: no
    But he has Louis vs Abe Simon I
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It would seem that this much valued footage has widened the camps on Wills rather than united them.
    Newreads of the time were unanimous that he had won both fights convincingly but produced underwhelming performances in doing so.

    On one hand you could say that even with less than stellar performances Wills was still able to beat two contenders without much trouble.

    One paper did remark that, at 35 Wills had lost his speed and dash ,still he won emphatically if not entertainingly.
    A counter argument might be that perhaps," what we see is what there was", ie that was basically Harry Wills, a big fighter, [for the times]with some real skills ,adept at tying up opponents , holding with one hand whilst hitting with the other, an expert at controlling the pace ,and action of the fight.

    A fighter capable of avoiding most incoming whilst staying in the danger zone.
    A fighter with average handspeed but, from the admittedly limited footage , slow footwork.

    What is not shown is Wills power, we know he possessed it but to what extent I am not sure.

    If we could see Wills breaking Fulton's ribs,or dropping Langford multiple times, we might well be convinced Wills was indeed a " Black Panther" but the Fulton and Langford fights excellent performances though they were , were 4 years earlier.

    Factor in that Fulton had already been absolutely annihilated by Dempsey in under half a minute, bursting his bubble permanently, and that Langford was half blind when Wills beat him up in1920, and lost fights that same year to such worthies as
    Bill Tate 15-11-0
    Jack Thompson 15-7-4
    Lee Anderson 11-7-7.

    Factor in that Will also drew with a 16-15-0 Tate in 1920.

    Is it not possible that by 1924 Wills was no longer the huge threat he has been painted for nearly all of the last century?

    Is it not possible that a 29years old Dempsey, not embalmed in ring rust ,[as the version of the Mauler that fought Tunney in 1923 was ,]coming off two wins the previous year would have torn a 1924 Wills a new rectum?

    After 1924 Wills essentially sat on the bench , keeping his place as the premier contender warm, avoiding those eager to feast on his aging carcass . One more moment in the sun, a 2 rds ko over the clever Charley Weinert who had been kod ,[also in2rds] by Firpo, a year previously , and by Tunney 2 years earlier, followed by a stinker against Floyd Johnson who in reward for his non- effort was banned for life, then Harry was done as a viable threat to the title.

    A onesided thrashing by Jack Sharkey forced Wills's Genie firmly back into its bottle, and what might have been would always remain just that.

    For me, off the footage provided , the Dempsey who outpointed Gibbons in July 1923, and kod Firpo in September of the same year sparks the year later version of Wills we see here , and that is the huge irony of it .


    If the fight had only happened.:patsch:patsch:patsch

    "Of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these it might have been." John Greenleaf Whittier.