Presentation and preservation have HUGE influence on silent film image. The number of generations of copying, film damage, transfer to smaller size film, improper projection speed, and not using silent aperatures (loosing the left edge of the frame), all do a lot to degrade image quality.
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Well, Fulton was big and strong. Not sure how fast he was. Firpo was also big and strong...stronger than Wills. Wills was not fast on these films, and is described as not being fast in news papers I have read.
Wills looks about as fast as Arreola on this footage. Here is a Firpo fight report. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...s=7&e=--1924-----10--1----0Harry+Wills++boxer--
Nice post ... it has divided many because the Dempsey apologists , who claim he deserves no responsibility for his draft dodging, inactivity or ducking of Wills, claim this footage of a 35 year old Wills as proof Dempsey beats him ... I ask all, what is the best footage of Dempsey that exists that we go by to even rate him as a great ? Pummeling a 37 year old , highly inactive Willard ? People seem to forget Dempsey almost punched himself out in that fight and looked far more average in rounds 2 and 3. If there was a standing 8 count in that fight he may not have even won. Beating a small Carpentier while getting rocked in the second round ? A life and death struggle w Brennan where he was badly rocked as well ? A solid outpointing of a small , 32 year old Gibbons ? Getting floored three times by a powerful but limited Firpo, a fight he should have lost by disqualification ? Not the Tunney or Sharkey fights , that's for sure ... My point is that Dempsey is an amazing American legend and story but to me completely unproven as an all time great heavyweight fighter ... he may have had the tools but he did not show them due to inactivity and lack of quality opposition as champion ... what we have is an exceptionally promoted, incredibly lucky legend ... lucky he was not disqualified against Firpo, lucky that the Tunney fights were not 15 rounds or he would have been stopped both times, lucky Sharkey turned his head ...Lucky he had all time great managers and promoters in his corner and a very well paid press ... I know Burt's going to quote "every trainer for the first half of the 20th Century said " and I respond based on what fight ? Say what you want about Wills but he fought far better opposition than Jack did ...
This thread is about assessing Wills chances against Dempsey based on the footage that has recently come to light.. Hard fights against Brennan and Gibbons? Two guys Wills did not fight ,and he turned Gibbons down late in his career, as he did Tunney, and Godfrey. Throw in Miske, Carpentier ,Godfrey, Greb. thats a lot of names missing from his resume . Far better opposition ? A fading half blind Langford, a 40 years old Jeannette, a 40 years old Martin,McVey he could not master, a way past it Clark, his best wins during Dempsey's reign are over two previous Dempsey ko victims, and lhvy Norfolk whom he outweighed by 30lbs and who was 6 inches shorter. The Tunney that beat Dempsey who was not an active fighter any more, would have danced round the slow Wills like copper round a barrel. Sharkey beat the **** out of Wills who fouled out to save himself from a ko. Wills sat on his wins before Dempsey won the title. Do you know what I think? I think Wills lacked BALLS . He quit when he broke his wrist, and he was in his prime ,Jack Johnson went another 8 rds in the same position and he was a fat over the hill man. Johnson btw fired Wills as a sparring partner because he said he could not take the punishment. Wills was dropped by average punching Paulino and it sure as hell doesn't look like he made any serious effort to get up. Don't talk about DSQ's. Wills has them on his record he was notorious for hitting on the break, low, and after the bell ,plus back handing. How many times was Dempsey dsq'd? Luck? Well Wills was lucky he did not face Dempsey in 1924, because Dempsey would have sparked his arse , that is if Wills did not foul out or quit first. All I've read for two days is" Dempsey apologists." Its getting rather stale now. How about Wills apologists ? Include yourself , Klompton ,and Power Puncher in that club.
Who ducked who ? Your post is so full of holes it's not worth disecting ... just didn't know you were a Dempsey nut hugger, knew you were a Johnson one . Guess you just like Jacks even though you don't know jack ....
He grant you don't honestly think Willard would have won the Dempsey fight under a different rule set do you?
Here's what I think: Willard was 37 and highly inactive w one fight in four years. Dempsey by his own admission was very tired after the first round. Willard would never have sustained as severe a beating if he was not getting pummeled as he got up. He would have had some time to clear his head. I am not saying Willard wins but I am saying it could have been a much different fight.
I have to agree with this assessment. Willard, despite his injuries, fought well in round 2 and 3. A younger, more fit, less arrogant Willard would have made that a real fight. The title had basically been in mothballs since the US involvement in the Great War. Willard was what was left over from the previous era. Still, he did call out for a rematch for several years. Apparently, in these parts, when a defeated champ calls out for a rematch, and the new champ does not oblige, we have an epic duck upon our hands.
Willard fought well in rounds 2 and 3? Dempsey slaughtered him in both rounds. In round three Dempsey started going after Willards well damaged eyes which drew hisses from the crowd. The third round is where the audience yelled for the ref to stop the fight...huge uproar as the bout at that point was a slaughter.
thanks for the person who posted this. i would have bet on dempsey to have beaten any version of wills, as good as wills was. but that is certainly no disgrace as there are not too many dempseys around. wills lack of mobility and defense would pose real challenges for wills to defeat a motivated in shape dempsey imo. cheers great rare footage
