Rate Each Heavyweight Title Reign By How Respected the Champion Was At the Time

Rate each heavyweight title reign (that means fighters with multiple reigns are rated separately for each reign) by how respected the fighter was during the reign.

By "respected", I don't mean "liked" as a fighter or human being. I mean, was the fighter respected as the best fighter alive? Or did the fighter struggle for respect? Was he viewed as a pretender temporarily holding the belt?


For instance, Tyson 1986-1990 would rate a 10. Few doubted that he was the best fighter alive and many thought he was virtually unbeatable.

George Foreman 1994-whenever would rate lower since hardly anyone thought he was the best heavyweight even though he regained the title.



Here's one rule: DO NOT FACTOR IN THE FIGHT IN WHICH THE FIGHTER LOST THE TITLE AS PART OF THEIR REIGN (reason: Tyson, for instance, was undoubtedly very highly regarded for virtually all of his reign, and to factor in the trashing his reputation took by getting KOed by Douglas would not be representative of how he was viewed during his reign).



I'm particularly interested in how respected the following fighters were:


Muhammad Ali (1974-78 )

Muhammad Ali (1978-79)

Evander Holyfield (1990-92)

Riddick Bowe (1992-93)

Michael Moorer (1994)

Ken Norton (1978 )

Jimmy Ellis (1968-70)

 

Revered, seen as a incredibly ring smart to make up for his lost athletic ability. 3 time HW champ...

A fighter with tons of heart, but is he really a legitimate great HW? He is a bit small. He didn't really get the respect he deserved, at least he thought so.

A legitimately big strong skilled HW... but can he avenge that Lewis defeat in the amateurs.

 

I wasn't around for Ali's later years, but I was wondering if the questionable gift decisions and flabby physique were taking a toll on his standing.


I agree with your assessment of Holyfield. Most people felt he was holding onto a title that belonged to Tyson, and he was not seen as a legitimate champion.


I don't think the general public cared much about the Lewis issue when Bowe first won the title (at least not as much as people on ESB seem to care now). I think Bowe was seen as a much more legitimate champion than Holyfield, and possibly the next great heavyweight.

 

Joe Louis was a class Champion in everyones eyes. Schmeling II and post Schmeling II the whole country loved him regardless of the racial tensions.

 

By the time he retired after stopping Jack Munroe, J Jeffries was universally regarded as unbeatable.

 

Sullivan, Jeffries and Dempsey would rank very, very high here. Very respected.

 

Jimmy Ellis? Really?

Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Baer, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis

 

Louis was never the betting underdog in his whole career.

On that basis he would probably rank as the single most respected in his own era.

 

Yes, but earlier he was seen as much more beatable. According to the 1976 Ring Record book (page 117), Jeffries was a 2 to 1 underdog in 1899 against Fitzsimmons.

Jeffries was 10 to 7 over Tom Sharkey in 1899.

 

Jack Johnson--was a 3 to 2 underdog to Burns, and a 10-7 underdog to Jeffries

Dempsey--was a 6 to 5 underdog to Willard. He was 3-1 over Carpentier, 3 to 1 over Firpo, 4 to 1 over Brennan, 11 to 5 over Gibbons and over Tunney in their first fight. The rematch was even money.

Marciano--had been an underdog to Layne and Louis on the way up, but was 9 to 5 over Walcott in the first fight, 3 1/2 to 1 in the second, 4-1 over LaStarza, 7 to 2 over Charles, then 4 to 1 over Charles, 7 to 1 over Cockell, and 4 to 1 over Moore.

Patterson--was a 6 to 5 underdog to Moore, and an 8 to 5 underdog to Johansson and a 10 to 7 underdog against Liston in their first fight.

Ali--was a 7 to 1 underdog to Liston in their first fight, and unbelievably, a 7 to 5 underdog to Liston in their second fight. He was a 6 to 5 underdog to Frazier in 1971, and a 3-1 underdog to Foreman.

Source--Ring Record Book, 1976 edition, pages 117 to 118---odds in heavyweight championship fights.


*Those odds on the first Liston-Ali fight are mind-boggling. Ali was as great an underdog as Cockell was against Marciano and was a much bigger underdog than Carpentier or Brennan were against Dempsey. Carnera was only a 5 to 4 underdog against Sharkey.

 

Jimmy Ellis?

Jimmy Ellis was a 3 to 1 underdog to Frazier in 1970.

Ring Record Book, 1976 edition, page 118.

 

Sullivan was a 4 to 1 favorite over Charley Mitchell*

Source-Ring Record Book, 1976 edition, page 117

*I don't find these odds all that long considering the weight pull Sullivan had. He was a man close to 200 lbs fighting a man in the 150's. Perhaps others will have a different take.

Sullivan was 4-1 over Corbett in 1892.

 

Sullivan has to be number 1 here, in my opinion. He was damn near worshipped as a god during his reign. About who else have you heard it said: "Shake the hand that shook the hand...of the man who shook the hand...of...John L. Sullivan!"

 

Just interestingly, how was Primo Carnera viewed in his own time off the betting odds.

Carnera was a 5 to 4 underdog against Sharkey. (close to what Dempsey was against Willard).

Carnera was a 4 to 1 favorite against Loughran.

Carnera was a 7 to 5 underdog against Baer.

Source--Ring Record Book, 1976 edition, page 117.

 

After Manila, Ali was at the height of his prominence, and was indeed widely considered to be the GOAT.

Holmes peaked in prominence after Cooney, and the WBA title was generally ignored. In the public mind, Larry was THE champion, regardless of organizational recognition. More than anybody else, he's responsible for making the IBF, for better or worse. Witherspoon was widely dismissed as an aberration by the boxing press, and the decisions in Holmes-Witherspoon and Holmes-Williams were not as controversial as might be supposed. In fact, the most controversial decision in Larry's career was one which went against him, the rematch with Mike Spinks.

Moorer was somewhat derided for getting dropped in dethroning a champion who was having a heart attack during their match.

After Leon Spinks upset Ali, everybody regarded Norton as the best heavyweight in the world. Muhammad was too revered after the rematch to take second billing to anybody recognized by the WBC, but he was no longer considered the best in the division.

Holyfield obtained remarkable mileage out of his wins over Holmes and Foreman, but stopping Tyson the first time really stamped him as an ATG heavyweight.

Ellis was respected for how he beat Bonavena in 1967, but he failed to impress against Quarry and Patterson, while Frazier was keeping busy providing needed excitement to the division.

Dumping the WBC belt in a trash can hurt Bowe's standing terribly. He peaked in respectability by getting off the deck to win the rubber match with Holyfield in 1995, perhaps the most prominent non title heavyweight fight of the last 20 years. (That it was a non title affair was generally ignored. It was one of those rare events which transcend title recognition.)