Saw this not to long ago about Lewis's chin, and after watching some Patterson fights was wondering if his chin is overly criticized or if it was as poor as some portray it??? dropped several times against Ingo in the first fight and a couple of more in the 3rd, by Liston in both encounters, by Quarry in both fights and a late carear one to Bonavena (I have not seen this one)...Has he been dropped any other times, and since he was able to regroup himself in both quarry fights and the 3rd Ingo bout (bonavena as well) how resiliant do you rank him. Just curious trying to study him a little more and wanting some feedback! Thanks
It's very underrated. He got knocked out three times. Two times by a Top15 p4p puncher in Liston and once by a Top100 p4p puncher. He was dropped often most of these knockdowns were due o his style and not his chin. He was often off-balance and knocked down due to that. Although he was rarely knocked down past the third or fourth round if at all if I remember right . He needed time to get heated up and there are reports of him having a kind of stage fever which made him prone to be knocked down early on. It's not as bad as many make it out to be. He got up to win much more often than not. Getting up and win is what makes you a great champ. If here ever was one who did that it was Patterson - aside of Louis.
It depends. For his size, as a light heavyweight, he showed no weaknesses taking punches from notable hitters such as Archie Moore and Yvon Durelle. As a heavyweight he was suspectible to being floored in the early rounds and even being put away by big punchers such as Sonny Liston and Ingemar Johansson. To his credit he did last against the likes of Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo, Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry and Eddie Machen later in his career. Muhammad Ali never could truly knock him out, only managing to stop him on cuts and an accumulation of punishment. Patterson was not a difficult man to floor but he was a difficult man to put away. He'd keep getting up as long as he could and recovered well from knockdowns. At times he showed good ability to take punishment, at times he went down from glancing blows. Balance was definitely an issue in many of his knockdowns. Look at Ali unload his best punches on Patterson: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZPHDVwTZ3g[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGcP88Xzauc[/ame]
Patterson's chin has been all the rage on the forum the past few weeks. It certainly divides opinion. I'm most interested in how easy a fighter is to stop. To that end, it strikes me that he was only stopped by two huge punchers in Johansson and Liston and the greatest HW of all time in Ali. Given the length of time he fought at the highest level, this tells me his chin is far, far better than is given credit for. Others are more interested in how easy a man was to hurt. From this point of view, Patterson suffers, so that's where the divide lies.
How much of the reputation of Patterson being chinny is based upon the media. I was watching Quarry 2 and cossell mentions him being tought to bob and weave, and many speculate that it was not due to effectiveness offensively as much as because his trainers knew he was chinny? Does this media hyperbole have a major effect..as some people just regurgitate what they hear semi-knowledgable (I use that term loosely) announcers as their own opinions?
I'm still of the opinion that it was average. And when I say average, I dont mean 'poor'. I just would hesitate to call it 'solid', which would probably be the next step up unless there's a word inbetween to describe it.
I don't think it can be called solid especially at heavyweight. The amount of times he went down and the Liston & Johansson losses were unforgivable. The media did try to paint him as a "china chin" and for a while even Patterson began to believe that about himself until realizing that he could in fact take a decent punch in his FOTY against the bigger and stronger George Chuvalo. On hindsight it's clear that Patterson was not a man who was going to be knocked over by any half-decent puncher he fought. It had to be a puncher on the level of Liston to get rid of him at the ease that he did. Others might knock him down but they'll soon find out that he'd keep coming no matter how many times he went down.
No. Patterson was considered as having a weak chin because he clearly and visibly showed one as a HW; simple as that. The revisionism on his chin coming out of this site is almost absurd. He was regularly down and/or clearly wobbled against mediocre, light-hitting challengers that really had no business being in a title fight; and despite being as much protected as his manager could get away with, he still was quickly and embarrassingly KO'd three times while right at his peak, against arguably the only two truly dangerous contenders he defended his title against.
I would call it better than average, pound for pound. But not too many pounds on Floyd. It was average for a heavyweight. A little under average for a heavyweight champion.
Petterson himself said it best when a reporter was bustin his balls for getting knocked down more than any other HW champion in history: "BUT I have gotten up more times than anyone else in history."
Yes, I have a Patterson bias but... His style led to several off-balance, flash, knockdowns. Rademacher, Quarry 2, etc...more embarrassed than hurt. And he was ALWAYS getting up. If Liston can say he hit Floyd with his hardest shots ever, shots that he said he felt deep into his back and Floyd was still rising, I think its safe to say that NO ONE could put him out like a light. In checking those Liston fights it looks like he barely missed rising in one and may have beat the count in the other tho a stoppage was the right call. What if Ingo's shot landed towards the END of round three in their first fight? Way too much made of Patterson's KD's. A true hall of famer. The only shots that truely damaged him were the ones he directed at himself. :?
He had a much better chin than people give him credit for because everyone only remembers his fights with Liston.