rate Liston's top 10 opponents

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by tommygun711, Aug 17, 2010.


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  1. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

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    #1. Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay
    #2. Floyd Patterson
    #3. Cleveland Williams
    #4. Zora Folley
    #5. Nino Valdes
    #6. Eddie Machen
    #7. Mike Dejohn
    #8. Leotis Martin
    #9. Chuck Wepner
    #10. Henry Clark
     
    tommygun711, Aug 17, 2010
    tommygun711, Aug 17, 2010
    #1
  2. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with the first three. Not sure about 4 onwards,but I'll be back on it.
     
    Stevie G, Aug 18, 2010
    Stevie G, Aug 18, 2010
    #2
  3. fatcity

    fatcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Leotis Martin fight was a classic.Ended both fighters careers.:good
     
    fatcity, Aug 18, 2010
    fatcity, Aug 18, 2010
    #3
  4. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Chomoko nut?
     
    Manassa, Aug 18, 2010
    Manassa, Aug 18, 2010
    #4
  5. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    1. Ali
    2. Patterson
    3. Machen
    4. Folley
    5. Williams
    6. Martin
    7. Wepner
    8. Valdes (he was washed up)
    9. Marshall
    10. Summerlin

    Honorable mention to-

    Clark, DeJohn, Westphal

    His wins over Patterson x2, Machen (hard fought decision), Folley, and even Williams are impressive.
     
    Hookie, Aug 18, 2010
    Hookie, Aug 18, 2010
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Based upon what?
     
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    #6
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Questionable list. No way should Wepner be rated over a top 10 rated contender like Mike DeJohn. DeJohn was a big guy who could punch really hart. DeJohn should be rated above Marshall too easily.


    No he wasn't. Valdes said "When I fought Liston I could still hit really hard". Valdes admitted he was over the hill, but acknowledged he was still a very dangerous puncher, and a big guy too at 6'3 211lb. Valdes going into 1959 was the number 2 rated heavyweight contender in the world. Sure, he suffered a couple bad defeats in 59, but he also went on to stop future world title challenger Brian London after his fight with Liston.


    Here is the same version of Valdes which liston fought. Looks big and dangerous to me

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucXgHJ0s8qg[/ame]
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    #7
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    As an avid Liston fan...

    Here is my list

    1. Muhammad Ali 2x- 6'3 210lb
    2. Floyd Patterson 2x- 6'0 195lb
    3. Zora Folley- 6'1 195lb
    4. Eddie Machen- 6'0 195lb
    5. Cleveland Williams 2x- 6'3 215lb
    6. Nino Valdes- 6'3 211lb
    7. Leotis Martin- 6'1 200lb
    8. Mike DeJohn- 6'5 207lb
    9. Johnny Summerlin- 6'1 195lb
    10. Roy Harris- 6'1 195lb

    HM: Henry Clark- 6'3 215lb
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Q's is best. I'd poach that although i'd have Clarke higher than Harris and maybe Summerlin given that it's likely that Summerlin got better.
     
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    #9
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yes, perhaps. But watch Roy Harris outside of his fight with Liston. Harris was actually pretty good. He had nice textbook boxing skills, good left jab, a high guard, and he was pretty tall for the era. Not a bad fighter.
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    SuzieQ49, Aug 18, 2010
    #10
  11. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Doesn't matter, they were all ATG HWs, which is the bottom line
     
    itrymariti, Aug 18, 2010
    itrymariti, Aug 18, 2010
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Don't you ever get sick of posting this sarcasm when you're discussing the fighters you undermine?
     
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    #12
  13. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    No, I'm sick of trying to argue and have other people be dismissive.

    I actually rate Liston pretty highly as a H2H force, just not top 3, and I don't think Machen was an A-level slickster genius.
     
    itrymariti, Aug 18, 2010
    itrymariti, Aug 18, 2010
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Here's the thing about these remarks -

    Nobody thinks that all these fighters were all time greats.

    And nobody thinks that Machen was an "slickster genius".

    So these little barbs make absolutely no sense - they are either totally meaningless or designed to elicit a set response, namely, your dismissal. You complain about it. Rinse. Repeat.
     
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2010
    #14
  15. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    ... on how they did vs. Liston compared to the other fighters he faced

    They were not as good as Patterson or Folley but actually gave Liston more problems.
     
    Hookie, Aug 18, 2010
    Hookie, Aug 18, 2010
    #15
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