Rate the 1900's Heavyweights.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Apr 27, 2014.


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  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Recently been studying the 1900 period and I'd like to get some of your expert opinions on the relative merits of the top fighters of the period. Obviously Johnson and Jeffries are the top men and I don't particularly want to debate their merits but rather the next tier.
    We have the fading fighters of the 1890's Fitz, Corbett, Ruhlin, Maher, Sharkey and we have the useful light-heavyweights Burns, Root, McCoy, Gardner, O'Brien. The black fighters Martin, Armstrong, Griffin, McVea. Jeannette and Langford. The better solid white men like Hart, Ferguson, Kaufman, Ross and Flynn. Anybody care to try a top ten?
    PS I mean the decade 1900-09.
     
    mattdonnellon, Apr 27, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Apr 27, 2014
    #1
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1/2 Johnson/Jeffries
    3-Burns
    4-Hart
    5-O'Brien
    6-Fitz
    7-Langford
    8-Jeannette
    9-McVea
    10-Martin
    11-Ruhlin
    12-Kaufman
    13-Ferguson
    14-Barry
    15-Schreck
    16-Gardner
    17-Root
    18-McCoy
    19-Flynn
    20-Ross
    And no Corbett, Sharkey, Choynski, Childs, Griffin, Monroe, Kennedy, Twin Sullivan, Ketchell, Armstrong, Mustain, Maher, Klondike, Lang etc in the list-that decade was way ahead of the previous and following decade in depth in my opinion.
     
    mattdonnellon, Apr 27, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Apr 27, 2014
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I had a cursory look through Box rec, cant really argue with your list.:good Maybe the experts will be able to give more input.
     
    mcvey, Apr 27, 2014
    mcvey, Apr 27, 2014
    #3
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Burns #3? I would say Fitz as he was doing damage from 1900-1904, including a KO over a prime O'Brien.

    You might get better rating if you had it 1895-1905, the 1096-1910
     
    Mendoza, Apr 28, 2014
    Mendoza, Apr 28, 2014
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    :huh
     
    mcvey, Apr 28, 2014
    mcvey, Apr 28, 2014
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  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    If that's based on ability then it's a pathetic decade for the heavyweights.

    Tommy Burns at #3 says it all. He wasn't a bad fighter but he was no heavyweight.
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 28, 2014
    Unforgiven, Apr 28, 2014
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  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Achievement during the decade.
    I think a case can be made for Burns at 3, he beat O'Brien, Hart and Flynn. Fitz beat Sharkey and Ruhlin as well as Gardner but lost to O'Brien.
     
    mattdonnellon, Apr 28, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Apr 28, 2014
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  8. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think there's still a good argument for Corbett, given the trouble he gave Jeffries in 1900, and (if one credits the fight as level) his defeat of McCoy.
     
    guilalah, Apr 28, 2014
    guilalah, Apr 28, 2014
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  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    OK, you have been very clear in saying 1900-1909, so I will disregard records prior to that.

    1/2 Jeffries/Johnson
    3 Fitzsimmons
    4 Burns
    5 Hart
    6 Langford
    7 McVea
    8 Martin
    9 Ferguson
    10 Ruhlin

    Beyond that it gets complex.
     
    janitor, Apr 28, 2014
    janitor, Apr 28, 2014
    #9
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Very reasonable picks. You don't rate O'Brien or Jeannette as high as I do but certainly Ferguson when he showed up could go as high as three.
     
    mattdonnellon, Apr 28, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Apr 28, 2014
    #10
  11. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How many times does this need to be corrected? Fitz never scored a KO win over O'Brien. It ended with no decision.
     
    Senya13, Apr 28, 2014
    Senya13, Apr 28, 2014
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    1900-1910 is tough to define as the sun set on greats ( Corbett and Sharkey ) of the previous decade. The middle years post Jeffries were a mess until more talent matured around 1907. No one went through the times as a top #1 guy for long, outside of Jeffries for 5 years. 1900-1904.

    Here’s how I would rank them:

    1 Jeffries
    2. Johnson
    3 Fitzsimmons
    4. Langford
    5. Burns
    6. Hart
    7. O’Brien
    8. Mcvey
    9. Ruhlin
    10. Jeannette
     
    Mendoza, Apr 29, 2014
    Mendoza, Apr 29, 2014
    #12
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Solid list, maybe Sam a little high, his best win is Jeannette who he also struggled with.
     
    mattdonnellon, Apr 29, 2014
    mattdonnellon, Apr 29, 2014
    #13
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Langford Ko'd Flynn and Ross ( Beat them more impressively than Johnson did ), and beat Clark, Battling Jim Johnson, and Ferguson before 1911.

    I think Langford was better than Burns ever was from 1907-1910, which is why I place him higher.
     
    Mendoza, May 1, 2014
    Mendoza, May 1, 2014
    #14
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No real problem with that opinion but don't underrate Burns, he was clever, could box and hit. I still think Sam didn't beat anyone 1900-1909 as good as the versions of O'Brien and Hart that the Canadian defeated. Sam didn't defeat Clarke until 1910, Jim Johnson was a novice in 1909, Ferguson was fading too yet he managed a draw with Langford. Of course a peak Sam should beat Burns(thought maybe not as easy as many think) but he didn't do more in the decade IMO.
     
    mattdonnellon, May 1, 2014
    mattdonnellon, May 1, 2014
    #15
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