Rate the legacies of B-Hop, Jones, Toney, and Calzahge

Hopkins resume is superb. He`s had his arse kicked by some of the best in the business.

 

I'm a British poster... And I have Calzaghe 4th by a distance.... but I seem to be changing the more I think about it. Calzaghe-Kessler seems to be swinbging it for Calzaghe. If Kessler turns out to be the man at 168, and fights and beats Pavlik.... I think that would do a lot ofr Joe Calzaghe.

Toneys got the skills but he never had the application to train hard and get in the best shape he could. At Super Middle, a Prime Toney would be very hard to beat. But because Toney didn't fulfill his potential, while others grew and adapted and trained hard throughout (e.g. Hopkins and Calzaghe)... I can see them being rated higher.

 

Im not British but I understand a gross discrimination against white fighters on this and other forums. Hopkin's record is rigged with little guys and he shouldnt have received more than a draw against Winky. Manny Stuart says that hes never seen Hopkins fight as good as he does now and many would agree so it is safe to say that Calzaghe beat Hopkins at his best and should be ranked above him.

 

I think one could argue that Calzaghe is above Toney...I don't know.

 

this has nothing to do with that. i think you're being irresponsible suggesting that in this situation.

 

yes it would. but have you considered why joe needs a man 8-9 years younger than him to lose to someone he's already beaten to bolster joe's rep?

 

At this point Jones and Calzaghe are above Hopkins and def that other guy it doesnt really make any difference what biased Yanks think thats the facts.Jones for his dominance,Calzaghe also for his dominance but also for going to America and beating Hopkins in his own yard outside his weight past his own prime.If Calzaghe really does outclass Jones and not just outwork then he goes above him also.Its hard pill to swallow for some people here but those are the facts.

Jones
Calzaghe
Hopkins
Eubanks/Benn/Toney

 

I think its primarily UK fighters but your right if you are a UK fighter and white then most ******s on here get color blind.If being raised in a polarized society does that to you I'm glad I dont live there.

 

Yes, like I mentioned before.... Joe doesn't have that many big names on his resume....

Eubank was a great win...but Eubank was coming towards the end of his career. Lacy was another American Hype Job. Hopkins win was very debatable and can't really be used too much in this argument. That leaves Kessler, who in reality hasn't acheived that much.

So to give his Kessler win more credibility and his resume more worth. Kessler needs to be proved to be a great fighter. Kessler can do that by beating everyone and dominating 168 division. That would show Calzaghe did beat someone with some class and not past it.

Also Hopkins wins are against smaller guys.

Toneys big wins are against primed fighters (Nunn, McCallum)

and RJJ beat both Hopkins and Toney while they were still considered prime..... although I also see the argument that Hopkins was younger but not prime when he fought Jones.

 

Of coarse you would say that but "Just in the last hour" we have seen it in this situation. Under a thread titled "I really dislike Pavlik" we have poster called Monster who claims "the white guys only win a lot because they fight class B fighters". Then we have another thread titled "White guys need to learn how to slap better." Then we got another thread calling Pavlik's corner readnecks even though Hopkins started a tantrum. We also have notoriously racist Hopkins Telling Pavlik that he fights like a black guy.

 

Jones, JC, hopkins and toney. You have to class Jones in a different place to the rest of them I mean moving upf from LHW to heavyweight was some jump and also winning a heavyweight belt at the first attempt.

 

Eubank was brilliant him and ROy jones would have been a fantastic fight especially at middleweight, because thats where he was more dangerous.

 

I find this more difficult than I would normally imagine.

Normally I would say:

Jones
Bhop
Toney
Calzaghe

But when I think about it in terms of what was actually accomplished and resume, one man actually stands out here as doing somethings that none of the other could do.

That man is James Toney.

Yes it is true that Toney likes to eat, doesnt train hard and has an awful mouth, but lets examine what he has done, also keep in mind he accomplished all that he has in spite of his flaws.



70 wins over 80 fights (thats old school and far exceeds anyone on this list)



He not only fought at heavy but has fought there for quite sometime. More than 5 years. No other man on this list could fight at heavy for as long as JT has and be as successful or as competitive and certainly every man on this list would have been stopped at heavy during some point and JT has not.

JT has a pretty incredible, long lasting resume at a huge variety of weights. You cannot say that for calzaghe at all who just recently and only had 1 figth at LHW.

I always thought of Jones as a cherry picker when he was in his prime, much worse than BHOp who stood at his weight and fought everyone.


I have to admit until recently I cant say i know much about anyone JC fought until lacy, he wasnt even undisputed.

So after more thought. Consdiering Toney has twice as many fights as calzaghe and calzaghe has really only been the wbo champ unti, recently.

I would rate

JT
RJJ
BHOP

and IMO calzaghe doesnt belong on this list. Being a wbo champ fighting nobodies for a long time and your only good wins are vs lacy, kessler and bhop (close) doesnt tally up to the former.

 

Calling me ******? When in the hood, doesn't the term being "color blind" pertain to those who deny that racial discrimination is taking place?

Maybe you need to read this: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2678773#post2678773:-(

 

Good points made...although another way to look at it is...in reality Toney couldn't be dedicated to train harder and stay in hsape for fights... he had to constantly move up the weight division, where he was competitive but not spectacular. He has a granite chin and probably the best chin from the rest on the list. Also, he didn't really duck anybody in his career and took all the difficult fights he could've had.... same cannot be said about RJJ and Calzaghe and maybe Hopkins to a lesser degree. For example Toney fought Reggie Johnson just 6 weeks after he beat Nunn. he also got knocked down in that fight....one of the very few time that happened.

So Toney gets respect for having a good chin and not ducking anybody.... however....he's fat, lacked focus in traing, couldn't keep in shape and his fighting at heavyweight is actually a minus point for me....yes, he lasted there because of his skill, defense and granite chin....but he wasn't great at HW.... he should've dominated at Super MW.....

Also, Calzaghe does have Eubank (pasty his best) and Kessler on his resume.... which is quite good.