Rate the legacies of B-Hop, Jones, Toney, and Calzahge

Agreed

 

Hopkins-Calzaghe-Jones-toney

Hopkins for wins in his late 30s and 40s against De La Hoya, Trinidad, Tarver, and Pavlik.
Calzaghe for his youthful win over legend Eubanks, then later wins over Veit, Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins.
Jones for (again) Hopkins, Toney, Ruiz, and one round blow-out revenge on Griffin.
Toney for...I don't know...Jirov (is that legendary?)...OK, he did have McCallum and Holyfield.

 

I repeat: Hopkins looked his very best last night but he was fairly inexperienced against Jones so its safe to say Calzaghe fought Hopkins at his best and thus must be ranked higher.

Oh and let me repeat: Toney really beat Ruiz and Peter too while Hopkins best wins were against much smaller men.

 

One big problem with Calzaghe is that his overall level of competition has been lower than the other 3, especially Hopkins and Toney. RJJ was always moving through the divisions, so that his excuse. But Calzaghe, he always stayed at 168 (until Hopkins fight) and most of his fights were against B-class fighters at best. Partly to blame is him always fighting at home and also Frank Warren building his undefeated record against these guys. His "0" and his 20-odd defences don't carry as much weight as if he'd fought in America like Hopkins did.

 

Hopkins
Jones
Calzahge

Toney

 

Jones
Hopkins



Toney































Calzaghe

 

Oh lets include Jermain Taylor as well then...

 

Best Wins - in terms of names on resume (Apologies for any I miss out)

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- Nunn, DeWitt, McCallum, Jirov, Holyfield, Ruiz, Rahman, ReggieJohnson, Guinn, Barkley, Williams

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- Hopkins, Toney, (old) Mcallum, Ruiz, Tarver

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- Ritchie, S Mercado, Johnson, Jackson, Allen, Echols (twice), Joppy, Trinidad, Hoya, Eastman, Tarver, Wright, Pavlik

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- Eubank, Reid, Ashira, Shaika, Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Kessler, (Old) Hopkins


I find this list terribly incomplete because a fighter is judged not only by his wins but also by his losses. Look at Ali, sure he lost some fights but he fought the best he could actually fight at any given time. That to me is more important than retaining the zero or being undefeated.


Toney: Rahman x2, Peter x2, Guinn, Ruiz, Jirov, Holyfield, Griffin x2, McCallum x3, RJJ, Williams, Nunn, Sosa, Johnson (prob more)

RJJ: Trinidad, G.Johnson, Tarver, Ruiz, R. Johnson, Grant, Hill, Bhop, Toney, Sosa, Griffinx2, Woods.

Bhop: Calzaghe, Pavlik, Echols x2, Trinidad, DLH, Eastman, Tarver, Wright, Taylor x2, G. Johnson

Calzaghe: Eubank, Bhop, Kessler, Lacy (maybe reid)


Thats how I see it without doing much research. Calzaghes resume is by far the weakest those other notable wins in the above list are against nobodies.


Oh and 1 edit I think being busy and number of fights helps determine ATG status:So to help make toneys case.

Toney: 81 fights
Jones: 56 fights
Bhop: 56 fights
Calzaghe: 45 fights

 

I agree, and would say Calzaghes is the weakest resume. The stand out for me on the list is McCallum x3... That is when very few wanted anything to do with McCallum. Like I said earlier, Toney didn't duck anyone or cherrypick.... but his determination to keep fit and fulfill his true potential deperately lets him down when compared to the other 3. He kept busy fighting but he was never in prime shape, even when he fought Jones he had problems with the weight.

If Toney lived up to his potential he would've dominated the middleweights... but he didn't and went up to medocrity when he was a heavyweight...he beat some HWs, but I don't think he was great doing it.


There could be case made for and against all of them. But for RJJ and Hopkins would be 1 and 2 and JT and JC would be 3 and 4.

 

I respect your opinion here and agree Toney could have dedicated himself more to training. I think whats great about Toney is that he accomplished everything he has inspite of his training or lack thereof. thats some serious boxing ability.


Without working too hard i think i could come up with a lot of people who i would put on that list over calzaghe at this point. This is in terms of accomplishment and level of competition.

Calzaghe has tremendous skill. I am a fan of his work, he just hasnt fought enough top level competition. Hell Mccallum alone has a FAR better list of competition than Calzaghe.

Look at McCallums list: Toney x3, RJJ, Tiozzo, kalambayx2, Curry, Mcrory, Julian Jackson

 

Who cares, they all done fne:hey

 

yep, that's what I said earlier too (see post #41).... McCallum has better names than Calzaghe.... McCallum beat Watson and Herol Graham both top British fighters who would've given Calzaghe major problems. Watson beat Benn convincingly and was due to beat Eubank before he got Caught with a terrific (but Tragic) shot from Eubank in Rnd 11... Eubank-Watson was a classic. the bodysnatcher definately comes higher on the list than Calzaghe based on opponents. The Warrior, Nigel Benn is reported to have said, he'd rather get beat all day by RJJ than have his bodysnatched (by McCallum)

 

...I'm not sure if Toney has the best resume or the worst?

He had some good wins and some bad/unlucky loses.... he was inconsistent and didn't train as hard as the others... So I think he should come 4th behind the others.

His achievments particularly at heavyweight, I don't really rate that highly. Credit for sticking in there.... and giving a decent account at heavyweight....but he does not dominate there....has never fought the Klits and really only survives IMO because the HW division is so shallow at the moment. Toneys always had a granite chin and great defence but he's at HW because he couldn't be bothered to train and dedicate himself more to be a GREAT Middlewieght/Super MW... instead he chose mediocrity and fighting the Sam Peters of this world

 

bumped.... now that many of you are picking Hopkins ahead of RJJ just because he lost to a very good (ATG) Calzaghe.

 

agreed