Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

Anyone destroying the top 5 of a division deserves huge credit.

 

And maybe 36 years old according to arrest records!

 

Patterson stopped being fragile against Ali.
Ali's peak performances were against Folley and Williams. Liston destroyed both years earlier when they were in their primes.

 

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Winner of a war

 

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Can't count the Golota fights since he got his ass kicked in both of them. You don't get credit for taking shots to the nuts.

 

Liston's most impressive win was over Patterson and Floyd was his best opponent, Cleveland Williams with a record of 31-1 folded to Bob Satterfield KO3 and dropped 2x a few years earlier, Williams best win was over Terrel who he also lost to.....Liston had a nice run but no super fights. He had a nice run and some nice KO's but he ended poorly vs Ali and if you look at Patterson and Williams, were they made to order...his win over Machen was good but again spectacular no

De John was a good win and Foley but Zora was not durable like Floyd was not

 

I was at a sportsmans dinner once when Henry was asked about fighting Liston. He was happy to joke about his manager jim wicks famous "aint fighting no mahogany sideboards" gag and respected his managers decision but was also quick to explain that this was only based on both being contenders. He said something like "I always liked fighting big heavyweights because i was faster than them. I fought a lot of men as big as Sonny and never had a problem. They suited me. But if jim said no that was it because he always thought it was only worth fighting someone like that for a title but if the offer had of been there when Sonny had the title we would have jumped at it."

 

and yet cooper did better against clay.

KO 1 could be a bit bold. Billy joiner lasted 10 rounds agains Liston but was knocked out by Hubert Hilton who only lasted 2 rounds against Henry.

I favour Liston but 1 round blow outs are hard to predict.

 

Liston had a significant size advantage over much of his opposition. Patterson 24lbs, Folley 14lbs, Machen 15lbs, Marshall 24lbs, Harris 17lbs...

Williams & Valdez were the same size as him. But if you look at his overall career he was never at a size disadvantage against a decent opponent.

Williams was a good but not great HW so
what's so great about that win? He was KOd by LHW Bob Satterfield who admittedly a big puncher was still 25lb lighter. Had a long career, but it wasn't littered with names.

& ageing Nino Valdes was shot.. hadn't had a good win in about 7 years & had lost 2 of his last 3 fights to low quality HWs. Could never get it together in his prime let alone at 35.

BTW Patterson had been dropped 9 times in his trilogy with Johansson prior. Excellent fighter but very chinny.

 

Your post.
"ageing Nino Valdes was shot.. hadn't had a good win in about 7 years"
A year prior to being stopped by Liston ,Valdes had beaten
McMurtry tko. McMurtry was number 5.
DeJohn twice bt dec.DeJohn was number 7.

Bethea by dec.Bethea was no 8.

Three top ten wins in the previous year.lol

 

I mean, it depends on your metrics, here.

I say flat out that I give Liston a lot of credit for fighting the guys Patterson wouldn't. He really was the uncrowned champ for half of Patterson's reign, full stop.

That being said, Liston vs Usyk exposes a LOT of hypocrisy.

Those who insist that Marciano's legacy is hurt by the size of his opponents conveniently forget that Liston's four best wins--Patterson, Patterson, Machen and Folley-- wouldn't size-up well with Usyk's cruiserweight opponents, and Joshua, Dubois, and Fury certainly outsize Williams, DeJohn, Clark, etc. So where are the cries that Liston never proved that he could beat a modern heavy?

Also, those who give Machen, Folley, and Williams the deference of considering that they could have done better had they not run into Liston, don't consider that Briedis, Gassiev, Fury and Joshua are all guys that also could have built significantly on already very good legacies if not derailed by a truly great fighter.

I think Liston is great, but let's be consistent, here.

LISTON'S BEST
Patterson- 6'0", 189, World Champion
Patterson- 6'0", 194, #1 NBA contender
Foley- 6'1",198.5, #3 NBA contender, #1 Ring Magazine
Williams- 6'2", 215.5 Unranked
Willlams- 6'2", 210, # NBA 10 contender
Machen- 6'0", 196, #2 NBA Contender, #3 Ranked Ring Magazine
Valdez- 6'3", 211, #2 Ring Magazine
Summerline 6'1", 201, Unranked
Summerline 6'1", 206, Unranked
Marshall, 6'0.5", 18, Unranked
Marshall, 6'0.5", 179, "Honorable Mention" at LHW
Wepner, 6'5", 228, Unranked
Clark, 6'3", 215, #5 NBA contender
Rischer, not listed, 200, Unranked
Bethea, 6'0", 204, #8 Ring magazine
Westphal, 5'7.5", 195, Unranked
Besmanoff, 5'11", 201, Unranked
Harris, 6'0", 195, #6 NBA, #7 Ring Magazine
Dejohn, 6'2.5", 202, #9 ranked NBA, #8 Ranked Ring Magazine

USYK'S BEST OPPONENTS
Glowacki- 6'0", 199, WBO Cruiser Champ
Mchunu- 5'11", 198.5, #12 WBO, #14 IBF
Hunter- 6'2", 199.25, #9 WBO Cruiser
Huck- 6'2", 198, #9 WBO, former champ
Briedis- 6'1", 199, WBC Cruiser Champ
Gassiev- 6'3.5", 198, IBF/WBA Cruiser Champ
Bellew- 6'3", 199, #1 WBO, , #4 WBA cruiser, former champ
Chisora- 6'1.5", 255.5, #8 WBO, #10 IBF, #11 WBA, all at heavyweight
Joshua- 6'6", 240 IBF/WBA/WBO Heavyweight Champ
Joshua- 6'6, 244.5, #4 WBO, #4 IBF #4WBA, Former Champion
Dubois- 6'5", 233, #8 WBO Heavweight (and mando somehow)
Fury-- 6'9", 262, WBC Heavyweight Champ
Fury- 6'9", 281, WBC #1, WBO #1, WBA #3,

 

Garbage tier