Rate their chins. Marciano, foreman or holmes?

There are plenty of heavies who had power but lacked skill, timing, technique, etc. Bobby crabtree, lamar, clark, butterbean all had great power but failed at the elite level.

Nothing wrong with getting hurt by an aggressive young fighter if you take care of business.

1-still waiting on the list of 240 pounders walcott hurt.

2-to see how good they were, it still doesnt change anything as i thought.

4-still waiting for you to explain how what i said was gay.

Did chuvalo drop quarry with a hook?

Did the ref give him a 10 count?

Im lying for saying this happened???

Didnt kentucky congressman claim chuvalo never dropped quarry with a hook even tho he did?

 

So to recap for anyone who cares since this thread has gone waaay off track.

Kentucky congressman and dago claim marciano had the best chin out of all 3. Since they dont like me "misquoting them" ill simply give a summary of my own argument. Im done with all the back and forth accusations and hypocrisy.

Facts:

-Foreman stepped into the ring 23 times with 22 fighters who all had winning records, less than 5 losses when he fought them, the vast majority were all over 6 ft and weighed 210+ lbs or more. They all had a 60+% ko rate or higher. They were all in their primes. Many of them would go on to have thrilling battles with elite fighters and ranked high or at one point held a belt.

-Despite these odds, foreman only went down against one of these punchers (Lyle) whom he beat to a pulp after getting off the deck.

-of all the 23 punchers he faced, the majority of them (about 15) he faced when he was 40 years old or older.

-at least 11 of the punchers he faced held a belt or fought for a belt (frazier 2x, norton, lyle, briggs, cooney, cooper, morrison, holyfield, stewart, moore, ali).

-the only other times he was down was against Ali (arguably #1 @ heavyweight), who had underrated power and young, a smart defensive counter puncher who gave the best fighters of his era all they could handle. In both cases he punched himself out, abandoned his defense, was off balance, and was thoroughly exhausted. He had a heat stroke after the young fight and wasnt used to the climate in either fight.

Holmes, who i rate 2nd after foreman in this thread:

-faced various punchers like a prime cooney, prime witherspoon, shavers (2x), evangelista, norton, smith (2x), prime tyson. Again, all good fighters who had title shots with winning records and a 60%+ ko rate or higher. All well over 200 lbs.

-only down against young undefeated snipes, shavers, and tyson after a 2 year layoff when he was 38 (self explanatory).

-continued his career and faced the likes of undefeated mercer, undefeated holyfield, mccall, donaldson, nielson,and smith again. Other than smith they were all in their primes with winning records. They all had a 60% ko rate or higher. They were all over 6 feet tall and well over 210 lbs.

Rocky

The vast majority of his opponents had terrible records, very few were over 6 ft, very few weighed more than 200+ lbs, and many had been stopped multiple times. He faced very few (if any) young undefeated fighters. He did not face many serious punchers. This isnt really rockys fault per se, but it does matter when discussing who was able to take a punch better and was more durable.

-He had a green eddie ross (who only weighed 175), rex layne (193 lbs), 37 year old way past his prime louis, mathews (179 lbs), 39 year old walcott 2x, and 38 year old 188 pound archie moore. These were the only men i could find who had a 60% ko rate or higher (walcott was actually 45% but im being generous since he "became better as he got older").

-Layne and louis were the only ones who were over 6ft. Louis was the ONLY one who weighed more than 200 lbs (and again, louis was washed up).

Moore and walcott dropped rocky in the 1st and second round. They were both under 200 lbs and were nearly 40 years old (38, and 39). Both had been through wars and both had more than 15 losses (and at least 4 by ko each) before facing rocky.

Ive seen all 3 men fight. Ive seen the knockdowns. There is no way in hell rocky proved to have a better chin than foreman or holmes. He may very well have the best chin but with his subpar competition full of rookies, tomato cans, and shopworn old men, 95% of whom were under 200 lbs, its hard to tell!

-I dont see rocky getting off the floor to win against a prime tyson. In fact i see him getting brutally stopped in 2 rounds or less.

-i dont see him remaining undefeated and on his feet at 40+ years of age against mercer, holyfield, or mccall, etc.

-i dont see him getting off the floor to win against ali. I think he gets thoroughly embarrased or stopped either way. I definitely dont ser him winning after burning through his gas tank flailing at ali for 8 rounds.

-i dont see remaining upright after taking devastating hooks from cooney, morrison, or briggs.

On the other hand, i see foreman and holmes brutally beating literally every single one of rockys opponents. The only ones i see giving them any trouble are walcott and charles and i think they beat them too in the end. Joe had nothing left and moore was too small to do anything to foreman or holmes at 38.

If there is any information i missed or got wrong, feel free to inform me.

 

Snipes never knocked out an elite heavyweight. There, I have more balls to say what you won't. ****ing *****.

1. Walcott fought one super heavyweight and that was Abe Simon. He lost that fight by knockout when he was pretty much a fighter on the side struggling to make ends meet. Anthony Joshua never fought anyone below 210 lbs therefore they would be too fast for him. You see, I applied your reasoning that because someone didn't fight someone of a certain weight they automatically lose.

2. No, you thought that Moore never knocked out an elite heavyweight when he did. You figured if he never knocked out one of those guys then his power wasn't there at heavyweight. You were dead wrong and now you are trying to squirm your way out of it.

3. So does Zuri Lawrence hit harder than Dempsey, Marciano, and Frazier Yes or No? He has 40-60 lbs on them, is far taller, and has a reach advantage. You said resume doesn't matter either.

4. Talking about giving other men handjobs is homosexual. You talked about giving Walcott a handjob therefore you are a homosexual. You see, its funny because you are such an immature child that you 1. can't even man up when you're wrong and 2. you resorted to calling other guys gay without provocation of being called gay yourself. Can't believe I have to even explain this.

You lied about what Cobra said. You see, we KNOW you didn't watch the fight and just read off of boxrec. You didn't even know that Quarry and Bob Foster never fought and when you were wrong you blamed it on Cobra LOL! At this point we don't care about what you have to say about any fight. We know you don't watch boxing and if you do it is very limited highlights from what you post.

You aren't fooling anybody, cut the crap.

 

I never lied.

Congratulations you have created a Fallacy of Division.

While A and B are both true as stand alone facts, they do not necessarily make C true.

And I still do not agree with that statement. Once More:

"I dispute your over simplified claim that the hook put him down for a 10 count for reasons that should be self evident. Its a misrepresentation of events, Quarry was up at a count of 1 and misunderstood the mandatory 8 count instructions.

You either didn't know that or you were deliberately being vague to portray it as a more devastating loss than it really was, while it was fair it was somewhat controversial."

 

Yet another lie from you. I never once said that Marciano has the best chin out of all 3. I listed the fighters in the thread and gave a little description about what I think of their chins. Here is how I rate there chins:

Foreman had the best when he wasn't gassed. Marciano had a better chin than a gassed Foreman. Holmes had a worse chin than both Foreman and Marciano because he went down against sub par competition.

 

No, and once more I'm left to question what you hope to gain from such a dishonest display. Maybe you don't understand how this works. This is a message board. Unless I delete my post, the text remains for all to see. What I wrote isn't going anywhere.

This is like walking up to a STOP sign and yelling at people. "This don't read STOP. It's telling you to recite the alphabet !" I agree with Dago, you need to seek professional help.

 

Well, he also claimed I was wrong about Holmes vs Bey when that was your slip up lol I only ever watched highlights of the fight and had no idea Holmes ended up on his ass via punch or slip.

 

Yeah I thought Holmes had been knocked down by a punch in that fight. My bad.

This guy is arguing for pure ego at this point.

 

Unlike that sociopath I'm capable of empathy. It's understandable mistake. Holmes was badly rocked in the fight by Bey, and not long after, ends up on his butt for whatever reason. Those are two impressionable images, that after the passing of time likely blurred. I'm assuming it's sometime since you saw it, Bey vs Holmes isn't a fight people are clamoring to revisit. Though maybe we should, I had no idea Bey hurt Holmes that badly in round 2.

 

1-i didnt say a bigger fighter meant you automatically lose. I asked for an example of him koing shws. You have no examples. Therefore your claim is nonsese. Asking me to prove joshua can ko a flyweight is like asking me if usain bolt can beat a 90 year old man in a race. Hey, he never races any old men so we dont know if he could!

2-im not squirming my way out of anything. I always referred to moore as a puncher. Im saying he clearly wasnt as good as he was in his prime with 15+ losses at a higher weight and nearly 40 years old. Next time try to respond to what i actually wrote.

3-again, where in my post did i say "resume doesnt matter"? For someone who hates straw mans youre on a roll using them.

4-when did i say i would give walcott a handjob? I never edited any of my posts, show me lol.

5-cool story bro.

 

I dont care about quarrys excuses. Every athlete has a million of them.

Once again

-did chuvalo drop quarry with a hook?

-did the ref give him a ten count?

-did quarry beat the count?

It should be yes, yes, and no. Everything i said was true. What you said was false. I never said quarry stayed down for the full ten count from start to finish. You said he didnt "drop quarry with a left hook for a ten count" and he did.

Would you like to discuss the topic of the thread now?

 

My point is hes running his mouth saying i dont watch fights and someone else called him out for doing the same thing. Hence why i called him a hypocrite. Why would i try to "empathize" with two people who are constantly using insults, passive aggressive behavior, and questioning my integrity and manhood over and over? You expect me to give two rat turds about your feelings (ego) after all that? Lmao.

Ego? Im not the one desperately seeking approval, likes, and attempting show how much of a "man" i am over the internet like an insecure 12 year old.

 

This in no way relates to anything I wrote in the post you quoted.

This is still a fallacy of division.

[url]https://media.giphy.com/media/HE193wGJhRXnW/giphy.gif[/url]

 

There is no contradiction. I said chuvalo dropped him FOR a ten count. Is English your first language? Lmao.

You want to respond to the topic at hand now? I made a lengthy post explaining why marciano should be ranked last. If i wanted to play words with friends I'd download the app.

 

Hypocrite doesn't mean what you think it does.

Empathy doesn't mean what you think it does.