Rate their chins. Marciano, foreman or holmes?

You sparred morrison and briggs? If so, damn, props.
That would take serious guts.

 

Well, the modern fighters are turning pro at much later ages, and extending their amateur careers. I think Charles for instance only fought as an amateur for a couple years as a young teenager, and Charles' first career got interrupted by World War 2. Marciano's amateur career..lol Not much there.

The sport simply isn't ran the same. There are several different ways of looking at it. Given everyone was fighting these grueling schedules, they weren't always going in at 100% and going all out like fighters who fight less frequently would in their few fights. There are lots of variables to consider.

Thank you.

No. Because the weight difference was only a part of my point.

19:28 is the most hurt I think I saw Foreman in his comeback from a single punch, he clearly his loses his legs and is visibly pained. Lakusta is not a great puncher, and at 216 here was in fairly poor shape. Lakusta presumably doesn't hit as hard as Morrison and Briggs, but he caught the big guy unaware.

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Holyfield for that matter, visibly rocked Foreman more than Morrison and Briggs did. So accuracy and timing, all the way.

 

Then if morrison hit harder foremans chin is better because he never went down. See, that wasnt so hard.

Dont get mad at me that your father (or lack thereof) never passed on the testicular fortitude to have confidence in yourself.

 

Fair enough. Its hard to compare pre 70's boxers to current ones (especially heavies). The game was very different and so was management, amateur career and other things you highlighted.

But see, the thing is anyone can be dropped by a punch they dont see coming. That has more to with:

-being caught off guard
-unable to brace yourself
-poor balance (standing straighy up, poor stance, etc)

It has far less to do with actual punching power than hitting at just the right time or the opponent running into the punch (like a counter). Thus its less of a knock on the fighter who goes down from it. For example, when ggg knocked down jacobs he caught him at just the right time when his balance was off. Or tysons knockdown of tillis. Neither example was the guy simply bulldozing the other (although they could certainly do so if given the chance).

So my point in all of this is that when it comes to chins getting caught when you dont see it coming and going down isnt that big of a deal unless it happens all the time. Then it probably does have something to do with a fighters ability to take punishment.

In foremans case, lakusta rocked him but guess what? He didnt go down. That only further reinforces how sturdy his legs and his willpower are that he refused to be dropped. On top of that, he was in his 40's.

Ali was a pretty good sharp shooter when he wasnt lazy and snuck in several right hand leads on the fearless advancing no guard foreman and it wasnt until the 5th round after geting peppered by dozens of these that he started to slow down.

 

Possibly the unprovability of the question? Just guessing.

 

Marciano said he was dazed against Moore ,which I thought was strange as the Walcott kd looked a lot more serious.

 

I'd say it's because it's such a difficult question.

I have Foreman at the top by a bit and Holmes and Marciano close. Holmes was dropped or staggered by quite a few but had good powers of recuperation and immense heart. It would be interesting to see him tested by a great finisher if hurt. Most of Foremans drama came first career and more often than not via exhaustion.

 

For one I never said Charles was the chin checker against Marciano. Also, just because a fighter hits harder doesn't mean they are a better puncher. I would consider Joe Louis a better puncher than Marciano but Marciano hits harder. You have terrible reasoning. Foreman went down against Ali and Young who aren't as close as good of punchers as Charles, Walcott, and Moore.

Lol this mother****er said "testicular fortitude".

 

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Only 5-6 seconds elapses between the knockdown and the fighting to restart. Moore lied and tried saying all kinds of things about standing 8 count, referee pushed him out of the way, etc. None of that happened and I'm willing to bet that what he said about Marciano might be a lie as well regarding how hurt he was. The film says otherwise. Hell, the ref barely checked his gloves after the kd.

 

Theres nothing terrible in my reasoning. Foreman was dehydrated, punched himself out and didnt bother blocking most punches against ali and young. Young especially, getting dropped by a fast accurate counter puncher in the 12th when youre running off fumes, off balance and having a heat stroke hardly points to a bad chin.

The fact foreman bounced right back up in 2 seconds, looked more annoyed than hurt, and young couldnt finish a stationary exhausted targeted tells me everything. It was a flash knockdown on an off balanced exhausted fighter.

Moores power wasnt particularly effective on elite heavyweights. He couldnt stop the glass jawed patterson and had no effect on Ali. Charles marked rockys face up pretty bad and gave him some nasty cuts. Any sensible ref would have stopped it today. Louis had been inactive 2 years, was past his prime and weighed more than he ever had but his face was fine and went the distance with charles. Walcott was a good but not great puncher and had excellent form but wasnt that big.

Everything seems to indicate walcott, moore, and charles exposed rocky when he finally stepped up in class. They were no longer in their primes and with a different ref each of them could have been declared the winner. They were also smaller and shorter than the fighters who genuinely hurt foreman (ali, lyle, cooney, stewart) and didnt hit as hard. This seems pretty straightforward to me.