Rate these guys in terms of greatness and h2h

I was talking more about his HW adventures, other LHWs did better than him while moving up.

 

What is the case for Bivins, Spinks and Jones over Fitzsimmons?

 

I don't have him top 15 at light-heavy, but I do hold him very highly H2H.

 

I don't like huge differences between "greatness" and "goodness". Fighters need to prove their goodness against the best in the world, which makes them also great. I'm in the minority that don't think eyetest is enough, because even the best experts can't find the real result before the fight.

That's why I don't like ranking Foster very high. I feel the same with someone like Bowe, but even more so because he doesn't impress me that much in terms of "goodness" either.

 

Meh, if you're destroying everything in sight for years on end and showing no weaknesses in doing so, I tend to think that helps overlook some résumé faults. And he definitely proved himself the best of his era. I don't think I've ever heard that disputed.

Take Pernell Whitaker. Based on achievements, he shouldn't be top 20 at LW, but it's almost indisputable that he's top 5 H2H.

I think eye-test is enough, if someone has proven them self at world level repeatedly.

 

Well, it's a combination of Patterson being the best heavyweight here, or second to Charles, and that he massively improved whilst at heavyweight.

 

He definitely was the best of his era, but I'm not a fan of his era. Remember, we compare him to the best of the best. Nobody disputes that he's all-timer, I just don't think he was as good as the rest fighters mentioned in this thread (and it's not like any of them lacked eye-test arguments).

I still wouldn't pick him over someone like Duran, Armstrong or Leonard. He's amazing, but he never proved that he was on their level.

To certain point, I agree with you. When you compare GOATs at certain division, I disagree. You need to have more than just eye test and decent resume then.

 

Well, neither am I. But he didn't put a foot wrong in that era, and he basically obliterated everything around.

I would absolutely pick Sweet Pea over Leonard.

I have never once thought Résumés matter in H2H matches. So long as they have been proven to be elite in their era.

 

I think he could do it. But it's very speculative and pretty pointless when there's a real LHW version of Patterson to use. The question you're asking me is basically: "if Patterson was better than he was, would he do better?"

 

Fair enough, we view this a bit differently then

 

Better resumes imo.

 

Fitzsimmons beat the best MW, LHW and HW in the world.