Rate these guys in terms of greatness and h2h

Yes. But although they were the best at the time, I don't rank them as highly p4p as I do Charles, Moore, Hopkins, Toney, Qawi and Holmes

 

Khaosai Galaxy

 

Fitz still beat a lot of P4P greats like Dempsey, Hall or O'Brien. I don't know, I view Fitzsimmons resume as simply deeper and better.

 

That has nothing to do with H2H at 175.

Fosters struggles at heavyweight are taken out of context and i think it's time i did a thread on it.

You talk about his advantages at 175 and he would have them in spades against a guy like Fitz.

Fitz was routinely weighing sub 160 as a fully grown man. He just wasn't that big. Foster would tower over him and have loads more reach against a much naturally smaller man.

Imagine Foster against guys like Jim Hall.

Yeah yeah Fitz won the heavyweight title etc etc. It really doesn't say much for the heavyweights of the era lets be honest.

Fitz was a giant of his era and he is very likely a top 10 all time great for his achievements in his own era. It was a different world then and he would be very lucky to win a single fight here. Foster would near kill him.

 

Nobody asked here to rank them at LHW, so I assumed to rank them P4P.

I don't think so, it's not like he only lost to Ali or Frazier.

Yeah, he's taller and rangier. He's not more powerful though and he's less durable.

Fitz usually weighed around 170 lbs during his HW campaign. Foster is taller and rangier, but would he be that much bigger?
Besides, Fitzsimmons fought and beat bigger men than Foster.

I don't get it - Hall wasn't that small and he was very good. What do you mean?

Or it says a lot about Fitzsimmons.

Fitzsimmons could kill Foster as well. He did that to bigger and better fighters than Foster.

 

Would you tell me which murderous hitter Foster beat to see how he fared against the best punchers?

Fitzsimmons beat Maher, Sharkey, Gardner, Hall, Choynski, Creedon and he slugged with 220 lbs Jeffries for 8 and 10 rounds. He was stopped only 3 times (twice by Jeffries) in 1890-1906 period, despite facing the best competition possible across three divisions.

 

And there's that lack of career context. It's an easy out and one many seem to swallow. What career stage was Foster at agaisnt these other guys? How many fights had he had? Where were they ranked? where was he ranked? What heavyweights did he lose to once he hit his prime?

I reckon he is more powerful and i'm far from convinced he is less durable. Fosters terrifying power is there for all to see over and over again.

Beefed up to 170. You yourself made the point of being bigger.

Your comment was this - "He was usually much bigger man in the ring (not in terms of weight but height and reach)"

He would have 3 1/2" of height on Fitz and 7 1/2" of reach. He also has one of the greatest jabs in the history of boxing. A good jab was almost non existent back in Fitz's day.

I am not misled by the big men Fitz beat because i really don't think they were that good. Corbett was sub 190 pounds. I'm not one bit convinced Foster wouldn't have beaten these guys. I'm also not even convinced Fitz would beat the lesser heavyweights Foster lost to. I'd take Terrell in a heartbeat, absolutely i would.

Hall was a middleweight and did win one of their fights.

I've seen enough on film so no.

I'd argue other. Greater but not necessarily better. Fosters jab would be like the second coming.

 

H2H i really don't rate these guys like you do. Not even close. Put them in Fosters era and see how they go. A Frazier would go thru the lot of them like a hot knife thru butter.

 

Then there is no reason to discuss further. We clearly disagree on the quality of Fitz era.

 

Indeed we do.

 

Charles would have done well v Frazier.

 

They never had a jab like Foster`s.

 

Not convinced. He was an extremely good heavyweight tho so mayyyyyybe he'd go ok for a while. The top flight heavies he faced were smaller men than Frazier.

 

I personally don't see this. I think it's very hard to spot 20 lbs to a guy like Joe and do well against him. Marciano would probably be the exception here, since his strength and power were somewhat freakish for his size.