Rated Higher - Foreman Or Lewis?

BINGO.

 

Gloves in his actual face.

But "inexperienced referee" ...... yeah, they didn't teach him gloves in his face was A-okay at his Don King sponsored "WBC corrupt ref school"

 

The alternative outcome could have been Lewis survives the round, wins a decision and Garcia is hailed as having made a great call. We'll never know and it's a moot point.

What we do know is that, as a heavyweight boxer, you're at risk of getting hit with huge punches, whether you've taken a count or not.

I have a point and it still stands, regardless of whatever it is you want to call "100% old school mentality".

I think you've actually mischaracterized what happened.

Lewis takes some rocky steps backward and then a few forward, towards Garcia, but stops short of leaning on Garcia, to put his gloves up. It is also worth noting the proximity of Garcia to Lewis during the count. He's literally stood inches in front of him.

A rocky Lewis easily closes that short gap, but at no time is he using Garcia as support, which is what your statement implies.

Garcia then waves the fight off and moves forward to put his arms around Lewis. At this point Lewis protests.

Lewis is definitely not leaning on Garcia, at the point the latter waves off the fight.

It's not a strange comparison to make at all. Holmes was obviously in trouble and jelly-legged and still didn't have his legs under him properly when action resumed, but he manages to somehow survive the round.

After Garcia waves it off, the first words out of Lampley's mouth: "What is this?"

It's not like the immediate reaction was: 'Good call, Garcia!'

I do find there is a direct correlation between Lewis detractors and a temporary state of being a 'concerned citizen', when it comes to this fight. As I stated from the outset, Garcia was not incorrect in his action, but I do think Lewis should have been given the chance to continue.

It's not an outrageous opinion to hold.

 

Well. There's no question that Lewis falls into Garcia, which pushes Garcia back a little, and Lewis is touching him clearly, with his gloves in Garcia's face. I'm not saying Garcia is holding him up or that Lewis is incapable of staying up, but Garcia took some of Lewis's weight there, and if Garcia hadn't been there Lewis might have stumbled at least a liitle bit further forward.

But I suspect arguing the minutiae is pointless.
You either believe Lewis reasonably demonstrated a fitness to continue, or you don't.

Garcia waves the fight off after Lewis stumbles forward and touches him in the face with his gloves.
Garcia's head actually tilts back from Lewis's contact.

Lewis is leaning into him, it seems his knees are buckling, and he makes contact with Garcia that continues for at least a full second.

Yes, and had Lewis NOT stumbled right into Garcia, and had Lewis NOT touched him in the face, he too may have been afforded the right to resume action with his jelly legs.

That is irrelevant.
There are some very famous examples of announcers questioning stoppages 'live', but we have the video to replay and clarify.
I feel Garcia did a better job than Lampley.
It would make no difference it we all missed it the first time. The replay vindicates Garcia, of course.

Lampley and Clancy and Merchant go straight into a rant about the referee. With their conspiracy theories, and act as if the referee was just some chump from Mexico with a fabricated record. Which is wrong.

But then, with reflection, after seeing the replay .....

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They are saying exactly what I'm saying.
In fact, Clancy goes further than I do.

 

And, I believe he did.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. I would have liked nothing more than to see Lewis get mashed up some more.

But the question is whether the referee's call deserves the 'controversy' tag that some people make a sustain effort to keep attached to it.

I can understand the fighter (Lewis) insisting it was a poor or dubious call though. That's in his nature as a fighter.
But the fanboys are just being fanboys. I guess that's in their nature too.

 

That's quite a respectable showing for Foreman.
I'd have him around #5 or #6.
Lewis would be around #11 if I'm feeling generous.

 

I didn't.

That much can easily be surmised from your long-running attitude towards Lewis.

I didn't place a 'controversy' tag on it. My take was as follows:

AND:

AND:

Nothing particularly contentious there^.

Misinterpret and badge it as what you will. I call my take on the fight a fair characterization of what happened and a reasonable opinion.

 

Gotta be the Big Dog. George did take 10 years off and I frankly dont know how to rate other than to say it's an incredible achievement. At the same time he didnt have the abuse to his body during that time. On the other hand the Big Dog never left. He stayed in the picture and had tremendous longevity in his own right.
Big Dog for me. Some fans dont want to remember Big Dog destruction but it happened. Example

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I agree with you. The Bum of the Month Club was a misnomer. They were bums in comparison with the Brown Bomber.

 

You said "there was no absolute need to call it off".
And my replies were along the lines of : if referees are to be responsible for assessing a fighter's fitness to continue during the eight count, with Lewis stumbling into him like that, dipping at the knees and touching him in the face ..... well, yeah, put in that position, ANY good referee does need to call it off.

My "long running attitude towards Lewis" is that he was a superb fighter is his era but is now OVERRATED, and his PR machine created a narrative around him that he was always being cheated or mistreated or given a raw by the boxing powers that be, which is clearly untrue. It was a fine narrative for promotional 'pantomime' purposes but should be taken for what it was.

Your "long running attitude towards Lewis" seems to be to buy into it almost all of it.

Of course, on these points we'll never see eye to eye.

My attitude to referee Jose Garcia is that he did a good job and would have been wrong to let it go on, was not "hasty" as you say, and obviously nowhere near as "inexperienced" as the idiots on HBO (and people ever since) made out.
Gil Clancy is actually there on the broadcast as Lampley's go-to expert who's been around boxing forever saying "well, I don't know him" "never seen him before" ...... yet Garcia had refereed Azumah Nelson, Gabriel Ruelas, Simon Brown, Terry Norris, Julian Jackson (among others) in world title fights all over the world.
So, while that's not Clancy's fault, it's very misleading use of punditry there.

I thought Lampley and Merchant's instant desire to jump on the "unknown referee" thing was ridiculous, frankly. It was probably due to something Maloney had brought up pre-fight, some pre-cooked "pantomime" to sell the Don King angle and make the fight more interesting.

 

Possibly Lewis's best performance.