Id said in another thread about Nacho Beristain being one of the all-time great trainers. His Romanza gym has churned out a ton of world champions and mostly from when the fighters were children. A proper gym. There’s 3 of his pupils already in the IBHOF - Chiquita Gonzalez, Ricardo Lopez and Daniel Zaragoza with Juan Manuel Marquez being a lock for 2020 induction and Rafael Marquez likely to enter next year. Gilberto Roman is a long overdue omission also. How would you rank those fighters in order? People rank differently. My criteria factors in obviously their resumes, accomplishments and dominance and also just how good/skilled they were. I’d rank them like this :- 1. Juan Manuel Marquez 2. Ricardo Lopez 3. Rafael Marquez 4. Gilberto Roman 5. Chiquita Gonzalez 6. Daniel Zaragoza Interested to see how everyone else would rate these fighters. I hate putting Zaragoza at the bottom of it because he’s a personal favorite but it feels about right. His longevity and ability to bounce back was far better than my 3-5 but he was never quite as dominating or as skilled and didn’t quite have the signature win or two they had.
What @Flea Man said. I think Roman was the best of them although Marquez has a strong case for being greater/higher on an all-time list. He had the same great all-round fundamental ability and technique that Marquez did but without the slow feet or vulnerability when made to lead imo. Lopez might have proven himself the best had he not squandered his career at straw-weight instead of facing the likes of Carbajal, Gonzalez, Kittikasem, Arbachakov etc. And he wasn't perfect despite his aesthetic/technical brilliance and power, being a poor infighter who could be effectively pressured by a non-great fighter if you could handle his power and get past his long/mid-range comfort zone, as Alvarez showed. Roman and Marquez were more battle-tested for me.
Every time Gonzalez seemed set to emerge as an excellent/great fighter, he got knocked out, the poor daft *******. Lord love him for the Carbajal fights though, they were a great service to the lower weights and did what Lopez could/should have done. He knew how to come back from defeat too, Gonzalez.
Yeah, “Chiquita” was a tremendous fighter and very popular too. A celebrity in Mexico and he drew good gates too. Made a lot of money for a sub-Flyweight. I think Nacho was a great fit when Chiquita hired him since Nacho if I’m not mistaken worked Melchor Cob Castro’s corner both times vs. Gonzalez (I think Cob Castro deserved one of those verdicts and the Carbajal one too) so he knew Chiquita’s strengths, weaknesses and habits. He tightened his game up and helped get those huge wins vs. Carbajal which are what got him into the hall of fame. Speaking of Lopez and Gonzalez. They hated each other and still do to this day. They used to be in the gym at separate times so they wouldn’t see each each. It’s a reasonable theory what Gonzalez said was that Lopez resented that he worked so hard and felt superior to Gonzalez yet found himself stuffed away on undercards making peanuts in comparison.
JMM is the clear #1 for sure. I think Lopez has a good case as being the second best due to his unbeaten record and title defenses despite his opposition. Juan Manuel Marquez Ricardo Lopez Gilberto Roman Rafael Marquez Chiquita Gonzalez Daniel Zaragoza
Now this is something I've never heard of, very interesting. Was there a reason why they hated each other? I'm curious to know if the Marquez bros have any opinions on Finito, given how similar their boxing styles are.
According to Chiquita, the resentment started on the part of Finito because he was “jealous” of the attention from networks and money Chiquita was drawing. I haven’t heard Finito’s side. I know Rafael admired Lopez greatly and looked up to him. He used to spar him when he was very young and said how good Lopez was. One day he said he put a lot of hands on Lopez and they didn’t spar too much as Rafa got bigger and more experienced. I remember he used to rate Lopez as #2 behind Chavez in the all-time list. I know Juan Manuel thought a lot of Lopez too but. For what it’s worth from what I gathered talking to Nacho he held Roman in higher esteem than he did Lopez. He obviously felt both were great. That could also come from favoritism as he trained Gilberto from very young and had a very close, personal bond with him. Lopez, of course fell onto Nacho’s lap after Cuyo Hernandez died which was just about a month after Lopez won the title in 1990.
That order is fair. I will post the Nacho interview of “Best I’ve trained” on Monday. It’s on my computer at work. Juan Manuel and Gilberto are his favorites but his work with Zaragoza is arguably as impressive given he had nowhere near the same talent yet lasted so long.
