Ray Arcel on Hagler - Hearns.

Perhaps, although I think Hearns is underrated opposed to Duran being overrated. so I feel I have to state why. The question I had about Hearns and Hagler is a slower pace in a rematch, but Hagler won the first fight no doubt about that. The question was in a rematch Hearns could pick his shots which is Hearns at his best. Slower pace using the jab picking his shots. Hagler knew to make it a war and limit Hearns coming forward and getting room to punch. It was a smart tactic, helped by Hearns being a little cocky in the press conference which motivated Marvin even more.

 

I think the answer to that is obvious. I repeat myself more on Duran because people keep answering me on it and countering what I say. If I post a comment here and 5 people respond to what I said I feel obligated to answer all of them with the proper perspective, which then would be more responses then someone who posts the pro Duran (more common) comment-who might get a like or two. On most of my other comments on the board, they are relatively short comments. This Duran subject is a subject I am very opinionated on with many years of contemplation.

 

I must add, and I am not trying to insult Tommy because he is one of my favorite fighters if not my favorite, but I will be honest. His tactic and attitude toward Hagler was not smart. He came in with an attitude and I know they didn't like each other then, so they had this dislike for each other coming from that cancelled 1982 right, well Hagler had anger about it and Hearns was just overconfident and kept being disrespectful to Hagler which was not a thing you do with someone like Marvin. He is very sensitive to insult or disrespect. Tommy didn't think that one out. You motivate a guy like Hagler and bring the best out of him.. It made for a great fight, but I don't understand why Tommy swung for the fences like he did and left himself open and later wanted a rematch so badly. To be that coccky was bad tactic and not smart ( the board does not let me spell it the way I want) I get the feeling he really thought he would blow out Hagler like he did Duran. He blew it by not trying to get room for his punches. Maybe he would have lost anyway to this motivated Hagler who wanted to have that great fight to be remembered, but Hearns gave it away by fighting that way. He guaranteed a great fight but lost the fight early on with that tactic of risk. I admire his career but the Hagler fight is one he will be remembered for the most maybe and yet it might have been his dumbest tactic in his whole career and, the one thing I have against Tommy is this reckless style at times to go for the knockout and leave himself open to counter, and then later saying he wanted rematches. He didn't pay in fights as much as he could have since he was so fast and landed so sharp. He had the ability to box and keep the fight in his control. but if he was landing punches he took risks to get that knockout, and to me he hurt his own legacy. That is the one thing I have against him. That is why he cannot be in the class of Leonard, because Ray put his mind to winning and would never have risked it all for emotions or for a knockout. I think a slower pace helps Hearns, but I never felt sorry for him not getting the rematch because he choose to fight that reckless way. The way he fought that first round early on he didn't care at all about fightplan. I cannot respect that too much. But he is one of the greatest no doubt. But his losses were all his fault in many ways.

 

You are the person that always harps on Duran's excusemaking. But you don't like it when yours is exposed as well. It is quite simple really. Also, I asked you a few months ago if you were mag1965 as I knew full well that you were anyway. You said you weren't and didn't who that was. That's a lie. Your credibility is gone. When you write things like "Believe me, I picked Duran to beat Barkley," why should anyone believe you when you've already been caught in a lie? If you don't like being called out in a lie, you shouldn't have lied in the 1st place. It is really that simple.

 

My arguments on Duran are quite simple. It is not complex. Names lacking on his resume in wins to warrent top 10 ATG status. Yes I harp on Duran making excuses because he is trying to undermine the accomplishments of others to excuse his losses, which are legit losses and one sided against other greats. I think Duran makes too many excuses and other people who have read his books in book reviews have said he actually ruined his own book with the excuses. To be honest I didn't even know he wrote a book. I would not read it. This excuses are too plentiful. He would have won every fight without an excuse? Ok well where are the wins against greats regardless of his losses with the excuses attached to them? Where? Obviously Duran thinks his losses are significant or he would not have an excuse attached to each one. He knows it.. He has to diminish the losses or the truth is there, the same as you are trying to diminish my points on Duran by mentioning personal things.
Forget the excuses, I say again where are the wins against great fighters which put him in the top 10 ATG without the excuses. Why are the fights against the greats always losses? Why does he need an excuse? Why not just have the win and prove he was top 10 ATG? And the lightweight reign which is very average and beating Ray by decision yet losing the rematch and third fight easily makes him top 10 ATG? Or why not forget the losses and let his legacy rest on the wins.

Well because the wins are not enough to warrant top 10 ATG.. And I think he knows and his fans know this is true. So he has to excuse that he would have beaten the other greats without his excuses. Not even strong excuses.

And about me -my credibility on boxing knowledge is good. I think. It does not matter. The way you are going on and on about me makes me think you think my points are valid and that I am credible.

That is what this is all abouts on here. I don't care if someone thinks they expose me because I didn't admit to being a name I was on a boxing message board- I care more that shady ways are trying to be mentioned personally to take away from the truth about Duran and his overrating. Again, this argument shows why I didn't admit to it and I would not admit to it in the future. It has no bearing on the topic.. No offense but I think that is a dishonest way to try and win arguments and I do believe your credibility is questionable. Absolutely on this issue, I am not sure about other boxing issues, since I don't recall what your stances are on other boxing topics. I don't even notice screennames too much, only what people say and how to respond what I feel about that topic on the post.

But about Duran, It is almost like you are trying to shut me up for saying the truth about Duran. It is too bad you feel being personal with someone you don't know is that important that you have to try anything you can to detract from my Duran perspective. Duran is not that important to go to low levels to help his greatness perspective. Compromising your integrity for Duran is not fair to you. just because he excuses his losses and cannot be honest about his fights.. I don't think he would care. He would hear the opinions and say, I don't care and move on. He is a strong guy and knows how to work the excuses. As for my views on Duran. I stand by my facts. Strong facts about Roberto.
Regardless of his excuses in losses, who did he beat to make him top 10 ATG. Again and again I have to repeat the same argument over and over, yet then that other fellow whose name I forgot says I repeat, Well you guys are asking the same things over and over. The answer is not going to change. But the facts remain, you tried to mention excuse making to undermine me personally before the mag stuff came up, and then when you found the mag thing you used that and still it is getting you nowhere. I figure you would try a 3rd option if you could, which is why I say you are kind of exposing yourself for trying to undermine someone personally for a public view they have on Duran. To me that is sort of shady and certainly it affects your credibility, That is the irony.
I would say try winning the argument on Duran and the facts on that. No one cares about me.. This is why he thinks and knows (as his fans I think do) that his losses mean so much and that they do need the excuses attached to them, because he knows and other fans like you maybe know that with the losses he has certainly been exposed he is a little overrated. Complete losses to Hearns and Benitez and Leonard. Outclassing.. I mean really.. Look at those loses.. He almost needs an excuse for those kinds of loses. He makes them and his fans accept them and don't want anyone to expose them as just excuses,and if they do expose them then they mention the personal aspects of the person exposing them to undermine the truth. First that I am the excusemaker or later that I didn't admit to being mag instead of pernell or other unimportant things. Detracting from the truth. That he is a bit overrated. Not a lot, but a bit. The difference in top 30 to top 10 ATG. Which some might say is a lot. That is what I think is happening.. Which is really not fair to the guys who beat him. And I think you guys know it and don't like hearing me say it. But I don't like the excuses because they take away from the guys who beat him easily.

 

Again for the thousandth time. I completely recognize Duran is a massive excusemaker, he always has been. But so are you and that's the issue here. You take Duran to task-rightfully so- but do not take any responsibility for your own excusemaking. You are an excusemaker, period. So try to take responsibility for your excusemaking. Or don't. But you will be held accountable for it on these boards. And your lying too. There was no reason for you to lie about your previous account, but you did. So now your credibility is gone, and, you will be held accountable for that too. Don't like it.? Well don't lie and make excuses in the first place.

 

You are right then, Duran is an excuse maker that was my initial point, until you started to say I was an excusemaker to detract from it and make it personal about me.

And also about Duran.
Would you also admit that regardless of the excuses, he had no chance to beat Leonard in the 2nd fight, Hearns or Benitez in his fight with them? Because they were easy fights for them. They were not difficult. At all.
And those were the only great fighters he fought, also Ray. Ray sort of was the blueprint for Duran initially and the Ray's style was the variable rather than Duran's if you compare the first fight to the second. The point is Duran is overrated a bit. And I am surprised people do not see it, because it is very obvious. I think he needed more to be top 10 ATG, and as time goes on he will be reassessed, unless losing to all the greats is something which is atg.

I am not relevant. You are putting me in the same level as Duran as though I am the topic. It is interesting but to be honest it seems a little
not too healthy. Something seems not right about questioning someone personally who is just posting on a message board whom you do not know at all personally. It is wasted time and irrelevant to any point you are trying to make.The importance of me on the message board as a person is not important. So that part makes me uneasy why I am the topic. I have to be honest on this, this is why I think your credibility is at question somewhat. Something has to be questioned when you keep going on and on with someone you don't know. It is not about me that is for sure.
Learn from it. Don't get personal with people or they will not want to say anything about who they are because then things go away from the topic and we get this.

Usually it is about my opinions about Duran which start all this about people going at me personally. Yet, I won't back down since this is what I believe. Duran he needed more to be top 10 ATG. Was that Pryor? A win over Hearns and Benitez would have helped. Not an excuse.

 

This WHOLE THING is about you're being a lying excusemaker. It has been since it started a few weeks ago. And you will always be held accountable over it. You're the one that avoids your lie and excuses by bringing up Duran's excuses. Expect pure accountability from now on.

 

Again I am on the same level as Duran. Do you hear yourself. That is why these postings seem rather unhealthy. You are putting all this energy into someone you don't know who is not significant even to the sport of boxing. And still you do not realize how you sound and how your approach is showing your own credibility as very questionable, even though that is what you are trying to say about me. I think the opposite is happening. Well expect me to always say what I always think about Duran and not care about what you say about anything else. You credibility is now compromised, which is what you tried to say about me. The irony.
Like I said and I really mean this- this is not about me. The more this goes on that is very clear. It never was about me as far as I was concerned but now this really is something beyond me and not about me. Look at the name of the posts and what it is about and what you turned it into? This is about you. I have sympathy but at the same time you are making me your scapegoat. That is why I say it is ironic. He who is without sin cast the first stone. And you seemed confident exposing me on two issues which didn't hold up and were not evidence of anything because you were not honest that you were doing it for dishonest reasons to demean my Duran posts

And now you have to stick to it and keep going on it, or your lie or claim of self righteousness is exposed more. You will keep posting on this forever to look like really that was the reason, when it was not. I never thought it was. Well post all you want on it. That is why your tactics backfired and you don't look so good. And on a screenname issue on a boxing message board after the first excusermaker thing didn't hold up. Oh boy. A guy like me who avoids getting personal and someone trying to draw me into a personal issue to get leverage and it sort of backfiring on them. Why did this happen, because I don't get personal and regardless of what that other guy said, I try keeping the high road regardless of this being just a boxing message board,and I stick to my points. I didn't even have to get personal. you exposed yourself. No one is avoiding anything I am answering everything more than anyone else would, although I am here to post about boxing and have fun.
A guy who is sure of himself and really self righteous would not keep going on and on about this. And you were holding me accountable? No way. No one with tactics like this would hold anyone accountable. You were looking for some sort of leverage with one thing and then the other in regards to my points about Duran, which are good strong points if not simple points or facts. And you are upset because that was exposed. You used two issues. The first one didn't work, then the mag one came up. That is what exposed you as not honest and you know it so you are going on and on about it in a childish immature way. I am not sure why you are here if not to enjoy something and have fun. Sort of a bummer on your part to put this sort of energy into something about someone you don't know. Like I said, it is not about me.

 

Didn't read. Too long. Doesn't matter. You still lied and made excuses. If you are upset that you are being held accountable, don't lie and don't make excuses. The truth shall set you free.

 

Ok good Yes let it go and be free. Let the truth set you free. Your two tries at leverage/manipulation did not work. I will keep posting on the topic of Duran just as much as before. Sorry if that bothers you. Don't take it personally. Believe me this does not upset me. How would it? This is a boxing message board. I enjoy it. If I didn't why would come back and answer these posts? The fact is, what makes Duran a top 10 ATG.. That is never answered. Not sufficiently by you or anyone else. Where does Duran rank and who did he beat to warrant high ranking of 10 ATG. Take the charisma out and the persona of Duran and put the wins all together. Where does that warrant his ATG (Fair) ranking? I do not think top 10- top 30 perhaps.. And if he excuses the losses, does that really mean he did not lose? (losses to all the greats). And then can we say Hearns did not lose to Hagler because he had a leg massage or he didn't lose to Leonard because he weighed in at 145?

 

Too long again. Didn't read. The truth shall set you free my excusemaking liar. Or is it lying excusemaker?

 

I am sure you read every word I say. Don't give up on the argument trying to explain how Duran is a top 10 ATG. In my opinion Duran cannot be explain logically in the top 10 ATG list- not logically. Aurawise. Sure. So can Tyson for that matter just on a snap judgement. Then we look at the resumes and wins vs. great fighters. Roberto fought great guys that is true. He just didn't win when he had to. Roberto had charisma and persona, but that is not enough. The same reason Duran is a bit overrated because of aura or persona/charisma is the same reason Virgil Hill is underrated.

 

I have never written that Duran is a top 10 fighter ever. Stop lying again. You have avoided the subject yet again which is the fact that you are a lying excusemaker. And no, I most certainly do not read every word you write because you repeat the same bull**** over and over again and always have. You are a liar. Liar. And you will be held accountable every time I read your bull****, lying posts. Guaranteed. Cheers liar