Ray Arcel on Hagler - Hearns.

I would dare say that Hearne to the majority of abuse in that fight. And he went on to some decent success afterwards. I will research but outside of that big right hand off the ropes early in the first Tommy seemed the recipient of almost all the abuse.

 

In that case I agree.

 

Agreed .. but Tommy landed a lot of clean shots on Marvin after the fractured hand .

 

the same level as Hearns? Benitez and Duran. and he won titles from Cuevas, Benitez and Hill. 3 different weights, first man to win 4 and then 5 titles in 5 weight classes. And Hearns moved up and fought Hagler at his weight.

 

What do you mean he moved up?

 

You know what I mean. Hearns moved up. He was not at middleweight. Those fights against Geraldo and McCracken and Sutherland were in between the fights, but he did fight there before, but Hagler was at his weight. So that is an advantage being at the weight his whole career. But it is not an excuse, I was saying that more on Hagler behalf when people say he is greater than Hearns, I don't think so. They are very closely rated, and Hearns wins over Cuevas and Benitez and Hill all years before and after Hagler show Hearns quality in many weights and styles. If Hagler is rated over Hearns, it would not and could not be by much. It can't. If they never fought each other, Hearns would be rated over him. But the win over Hearns probably influences the ranking. But they have to be near each other.

 

Steward said it. He made the excuse.

 

Yes. It is an excuse

 

First off, why should Hagler have moved up, to satisfy people like you? I dont know how old you are, nor do I care. But I was around that time, and A. Hagler never expressed any desire to move up. And B. Hagler wanted to break the record for the most middleweight title defenses. And as far as fighting lightheavyweights, neither Leonard nor Hearns would have challenged for the lightheavy crown had the champ been Spinks or Qawi instead of LaLonde or Hill because they would have been PUMMELLED and they probably knew it.

 

Hill is vastly overrated. He fought in a week era and was badly beaten by the best 175 pounders he fought in Darius and Jones. And he also lost to a fellow that was beaten by Iran Barkley at 175. Had he fought in the Saad Spinks era he never would have won a strap.

 

Yes. The answer is that you make excuses for Tommy. Thats the answer. And yes, Hill is vastly overrated. He had good longevity but the Tiozzos and Maskes of the world are not particularly impressive quite frankly.

 

Jesus Christ. It appears that you know nothing about Marvin Hagler. Tommy broke his hand on Hagler's head, couldnt knock Marvin down with said punch and proceeded to get his ass handed to him and stopped 2 rounds later. But, you "know" that Tommy could have knocked Marvin out had Marv fought righty from the start. Congratulations on your trend of ignoring reality.

 

I was talking about Virgil Hill. He is overrated.

 

sorry mate … my bad

 

I never cared about that leg massage thing. It sounded as bad as Duran's excuses. I don't even hear it. It was up to Emanual and Tommy to not let those guys close to him to massage his legs.. As Emanual said the hangers ons.