Ray Charles Leonard vs. Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - ESPN2 HD @ 12:30am EST!

great fights. Leonard should have retired after he beat Duran in the 3rd fight. His legacy would have been so great at this point. The Norris fight really hurt his legacy. Bad guy to fight. The Camacho fight was like any fighter Ray would have fought in 1997 who was decent enough. Ray would have been stopped, but the Norris fight was the fight which really was a bad decision. He should have either retired after Duran 3 or fight Hearns 3, yet I think Hearns might have come out with a victory in fight 3. Even fighting Barkley would have been a better decision than fighting Norris. Barkley was more his era , yet Barkley might have been tough for Ray. sometimes I don't think that would have been as easy a fight as some thing. Barkley was strong.

 

I have both fights in their home entertainment presentations on the external hard drive, have viewed both to death. Leonard absolutely beat Hagler and Tommy should've gotten the decision in the rematch with Ray.

 

Yes I could. I thought Ray tried to match Hearns with one fight in the most disrespectful way to boxing. Tommy won his 5th title I think it was Nov 4 1988 on a Friday night vs. Kinchen at the Vegas Hilton, and then Ray at Caesars on Nov 7 fought Lalonde. 3 days separated the first guys to winning 5 titles in the history of boxing . The Lalonde fight was a good fight, although I think Donny wore out because of the weight. Had he been at full 175 pounds I am not sure he could beat Ray, who had a lot of experience, but he might have made it even closer. Donny just collapsed from exhaustion.

 

I agree. I never understood how people think Marvin won or how Marvin didn't see how he didn't win. He was rusty and not at his best, but he stylistically was not great for Ray at all. . I think Hagler as much as he complains about the decision took Ray for granted thinking he would knock him out easily. Coming out right handed gave Ray the momentum and for a great fighter like Ray, that is all he needed to figure somethings out and get an idea of Marvin's power and speed. Then Marvin loses and he acts like everyone was against him. Marvin did not do well when he thought he would beat guys easily. I think he thought Duran would be easy and he come out tentative. As for Ray, He would have figured things out anyway, but those 2 rounds gave Ray the edge starting off. Hearns. I agree. Hearns earned that decision. I only wish Tommy would have come out boxing in round 12 and not go for the knockout, since Ray come on when Tommy got tired. Ray sure loved hitting on the break in the Hearns fight, and also Lalonde.

 

I watched this last week unfortunately or I'd definitely be up for this.

Ray definitely won this fight, by a small margin but it's clear.

Loved the Hearns fight more myself.

 

I also think Ray understood something about Marvin. Marvin is a great fighter, but he is a self motivator. If he didn't like someone I think he fought better as Hearns found out. Ray knew this I think and was very careful in the buildup to mention Marvin as a good guy and a friend and say how he liked Bertha Hagler. It was almost too obvious. He didn't want to make Hagler upset at all. and I think it worked a little or a lot... As well as making himself look beatable and coming out after a long layoff. I think the long layoff was a ploy as much as anything else Ray did in those years. Ray might have beaten Marvin in 1982 or 83 had they fought, but Marvin would have been younger himself and he would have taken Ray maybe more seriously. Ray probably knew Marvin would take him lightly and then on top of that Ray acts respectful and doesn't get Marvin mad, as well as getting the gloves and ring size he wants. Marvin is rusty, having only fought one time since Hearns 2 years before. if we put it all together in hindsight it looks better for Ray than ever.

 

I heartily recommend watching Leonard-Hagler back-to-back with Channel 4's The Most Retiring Champion.

 

Me personally. I wanted to see Hearns vs. Duran 2. I thought Hearns would win the rematch, but I think Hearns declining a little made the fight a more interesting matchup. Duran had not declined too much since 1984, maybe a little in those 5 years, but not too much. And he did well with Barkley and Hearns did not. so it would have been an interesting marketing in regards to Barkley. I think it would have gone into the late rounds in an exciting fight. I think Hearns/Duran 2 would have been much more interesting than Hearns/Leonard 3. Who knows had Hearns won that extra point vs Ray and won the decision had Duran and Hearns fought a rematch.. The winner was going to fight Duran I know that.. And Ray ended up fighting him.