Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

A broken shoulders a bit different from a never proven tummy ache. Various comments from his own people make it anything but proven.

 

No. I had it right. Officially he got two gifts and we all know it. So his record should read 35-5.

 

Nice try. At least mine are factual.

 

I think 'the Rooster' is making a point about the quality of the scoring.

Hearns blew a fuse in round 12 of the rematch, but he did win the fight overall.

The commentators knew it, the fans knew it, boxing historians know it, and even Leonard himself has subsequently conceded it...

There is a lot of money to be made in boxing. Sometimes the judging is phoney.

Hearns UD Leonard. :hey

 

I dont agree. I don't think Leonard won, or even that he earned a draw, but it was close. I have seen a LOT worse decisions than this. When many other bad decisions are made, people may be angry, but they eventually shrug and say, well, that's boxing. When this fight is concerned, everyone starts talking about conspiracy. Just shows how polarizing Leonard still is. Kinda like Ali is polarizing. And Marciano.

 

Agree totally with you mate.

I have also seen worse decisions, BUT this particular one is much more important because it impacts on our debates over P4P top 10 lists. Leonard Hearns II is special because both guys have cases as P4P greats, and what happened in that fight impacts on those cases.

With many fighters we are prepared to shrug our shoulders in the face of bad decisions, but with guys like SRL, with so much at stake legacy-wise we have to split hairs to do the analyses justice!!

After all, this is what forums like ESB are all about - not rewriting history, but making sure history is fairly documented. Boxrec does not always tell the full story.

I feel it doesnt do justice to either man (but particularly Tommy Hearns) if we ignore these issues.

 

I see what you're saying, but I guess what I'm saying is many fighters get the benefit of the doubt without it being felt that they are robbing someone else of their legacy. With Leonard, more is always written into it. He seems to have to live up to more than other great fighters. We excuse Joe Louis for losing to Ezzard Charles, but Leonard is downgraded for scuffling against Hearns and Norris, for example. Its easy to look back this far off and determine later that a decision had some far reaching impact. At the time, it was just a decision, you know what I mean?

 

Noone gets fully excused for losses in my book, although circumstances are certainly taken into account.

Louis had had a million fights, was washed up and 37 when Charles got to him.

Not convinced that has much bearing on Leonard's condition for Hearns and Hagler?

 

I thought I'd deal with facts, unlike Rooster. Leonard beat Hagler, and got a draw with Leonard.

IMO Leonard beat Hagler, but was beaten by Hearns in their rematch.

 

He beat Hagler. No reason for him to apologize for anything there, that was a great feat. He was like 32 or 33 when he fought Hearns again, and had a tough time. Well, lots of guys had tough times against Hearns. Had the fight been a fifteen rounder, who knows? He might have done the same thing again and stopped him late. No reason not to believe that, because he had Hearns close to being stopped in the 12th.