Ray Leonard: P4P Rating over last 50 Years?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012.


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  1. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Quite obviously one of the most complete fighters in ring history, with every box from physical attributes, skills, ability, intangibles and record checked to certify and validate his claim for greatness. Some would call him the 2nd greatest welterweight to ever lace up gloves (a monumental achievement considering the history); some others just the flat out greatest. Where do you rate him (P4P) as it pertains to more modern times over the last 50 or so years?

    His CV isn't as slim as you might think. People criticize his lack of title defenses at welterweight without realizing he damn near cleaned out the division (as well as a couple guys north at 154) before he even got a title shot. He earned every damn thing he got.

    Here's the list of rated fighters to taste defeat at the hands of SRL (W-L included for shits and giggles because it seems to carry so much weight these days). Over a span of 22 months, he beat three ATGs and a fourth lineal champion at a higher weight with a combined record of 178-1-1. That isn't even including Hagler.

    Marvin Hagler (62-2) [Lineal/WBC 160 Champ]
    Thomas Hearns (32-0) [WBA 147 Titlist]
    Wilfred Benitez (38-0) [Lineal/WBC 147 Champ]
    Roberto Duran (72-1)
    Ayub Kalule (36-0) [Lineal/WBC 154 Champ]
    Donny Lalonde (31-2)
    Dave Green (33-2)
    Randy Shields (31-4)
    Pete Ranzany (45-3)
    Tony Chiaverini (30-4)
    Floyd Mayweather, Sr (15-1)
    Johnny Gant (44-11)
    Armando Muniz (44-13)
    Bruce Finch (28-3)
    Andy Price (28-5)


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL8mk0YZIPE&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL8mk0YZIPE&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
     
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    #1
  2. Barrera

    Barrera Defeated Boxing_master Full Member

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    i think i have him in my top 10 (i think around 8 or so) well deserved spot for a freak of nature

    recently watched the beyond the glory episode of him, really good insight into the legend

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EufQ5fzOXdw[/ame]
     
    Barrera, Oct 16, 2012
    Barrera, Oct 16, 2012
    #2
  3. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can see an argument against for the 50 years,but I'd confidently say he was the best of the last 35 easy.
    You're talking about a guy who at his best weight,would be a H2H match for absolutely anyone.
    In terms of complete fighting and versatility,he's untouchable over 50 for me.Look at the Duran loss,Kalule win,Benitez win,Duran win and the late rally against Tommy and you will see many different styles of fighting from the one guy.He had the versatility to adapt to anyone and the deepest well of the modern era.
    Ray always found a way.
     
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    #3
  4. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And yes I voted the best.
    What did you expect?
     
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    #4
  5. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    Over 12 rounds at WW he'd lose to Tommy Hearns prime for prime but that 14th round has to be one of the greatest KO's based on circumstance as well as the calibre of the fighters. Remember Tommy only really looked chinny once he moved up to MW
     
    moneypaysbills, Oct 16, 2012
    moneypaysbills, Oct 16, 2012
    #5
  6. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Not Top 5. :lol:
     
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    #6
  7. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    Last 50 years.

    1. Duran

    I think you could make a reasonable argument for having Monzon over Leonard.
     
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2012
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2012
    #7
  8. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Not a Mantequilla fan, DrMo? :verysad
     
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    #8
  9. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And yet you'd have bet that the extra weight in his legs would have been a great help to him.
     
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    #9
  10. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    :patsch Completely forgot about him, Sanchez & Nelson probably deserve a mention too.

    Edit: Ali at #2, above Leonard but below Duran
     
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2012
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2012
    #10
  11. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    I know what you mean it is odd, but he never really looked like he had a chin of glass until Marvin and after
     
    moneypaysbills, Oct 16, 2012
    moneypaysbills, Oct 16, 2012
    #11
  12. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali
    Roberto Duran
    Ray Leonard
    Pernell Whitaker
    Roy Jones Jr.
    Marvin Hagler
    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Bernard Hopkins
    Tommy Hearns
    Carlos Monzon

    :deal
     
    turbotime, Oct 16, 2012
    turbotime, Oct 16, 2012
    #12
  13. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    A weeping, and a moaning, and a gnashing of teeth.
     
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    #13
  14. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And my top 10 list changes frequently but Arguello is always a lock.
     
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    PityTheFool, Oct 16, 2012
    #14
  15. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Monzon way too low for my taste. Had easily one of the greatest title reigns in the history of boxing. Arguably the definition standard of what a clean-out should be. Fought Top 3 rated opposition like 90% of the time.
     
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Oct 16, 2012
    #15
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