Ray Leonard, The Thread.

SRR obviously but I would also add Hearns, as SRL struggled with Tommy's length and height and beat a version of Hearns that wasn't quite prime. I recall Tommy came in very light that night (145 lbs) and when Leonard became the aggressor he couldn't cope due to his relatively limited experience at that rarefied level. Also, over 12 rounds Tommy would have won the fight.

I think a prime Tommy has a good chance, which is why I selected 'other'.

 

Superb boxer, very unlikable and fake personality wise, but what can you do? He's one of the best ever in my book.

 

You're ignoring the fact that Duran's losses came at much higher weights....160 vs Hagler for example. I'm assuming Duran fights Leonard at 147. Don't bring up the "LHW" title win against LaLonde...Ray made LaLonde drain down to 167 and Ray weighed 165 (a fat 165) for that one.

 

He definitely cherry picked less than Mayweather

The cherry picking he did do was almost exclusively after commencing his 1984 comeback.

He unified against Hearns. He beat the more experienced Benitez. He agreed to a superfight in 1980 with the much more experienced Duran, who was, contrary to some historical revisionists, a full fledged and dangerous 147 pounder by then.

The phoney baloney you refer to is called Marketing. He had the charisma to cash in. I can't fault him for that.

 

An amazing fighter, one of the best resumes.

I agree his ATG ring iq was invaluable, perhaps even more so than his speed.
Robinson is the only one on the list I’d be confident in, but I have Burley and Gavilan votes because I think they have good shots, if they fight right.

The podcast was a nice listen, by the way.

 

Whereas Robinson was such an all round nice guy?

 

Green never really improved.

 

I wouldnt know. Why even bring it up unless to start an arguement? You r an instigator rnt ya? But r u a lyin liar?

 

You get your facts wrong so often it becomes repetitive to argue with you and show you where you are wrong.

 

You cannot ignore what Ray said or the fact that Ray outclassed him the final two times they fought. 3 times their careers? With his lightweight opposition? No. You cannot ignore what happened in the rematch or rubber match and doing so demonstrates unfairness and agenda.

I do believe Ray would beat him easily probably 10 out of 10 fights.. Duran might land a right or something like that in a couple of them but Ray would do ok, but Duran could not beat Ray when he moved and countered Simple. I think they were three times the fighters as the guys Duran fought at lightweight, which is why it is hard to rate Duran prior to moving up. I don't hate anything I just know that Duran lost to all of them and Ray outclassed him after the first fight. It isn't that I base more on the fights when he moved up it is that those were the better fighters, so rating him there is how I come up with more of a conclusion of his answer when he fought that elite level. And Benitez outclassed him and Hearns outclassed him. The greats he fought. I am just using what was fact and this shows the overrating.

Ray is mentioned in all time great lists and should be. In my mind he proved more than Duran. Absolutely, and if people are fair this is very very clear. Beating different great fighters with different styles. Outpunching the puncher in Hearns. Making the Duran quit. Outspeeding Benitez. Outboxing Hagler.

 

Which I think he is why he is overrated. Many people say well you are judging him when he moved up. If Hearns had not moved up we wouldn't have much to judge. 2 fights against Pipino and Ray? Moving up defines greatness. If they can do it against top fighters. Tommy did. I don't think anything Duran did at lightweight gets him top 10 ATG. He was dominant against guys he should have beaten. Right? I think the ATG lists are a little ridiculous anyway. They are popularity lists. Duran gets overrated quite a bit. If he had the right style where a guy was in range he could beat anyone. I don't think Moore or Barkley are that big accomplishments in light of how he did against Leonard, Benitez,Hearns or Hagler. He lost to them all. Barkley only claim to fame is beating Tommy. Showing how significant Tommy was, but Duran beat Barkley is not Duran beating Tommy. Duran and Hearns were two greats and two champs at that weight.

 

except for Ray 1in June of 1980- Duran was pretty cold. Hot against lesser guys. You want to mention basketball. Lebron seems to be doing very well for a guy 35 years old now, and Kobe won his final rings when he was past 30. And played some of his best basketball. So much for excuses.

 

Also Duran's losses came against great fighters. That is what I base it on. I agree with the Lalonde fight and Ray. Ridiculous how Ray manipulated titles like that.

 

Anyway, so, Ray Leonard...