Ray Leonard v Basilio in both their primes at welter or above who would have won?

Basilio WAS basically a Lt. Middie at his best, but the Division didn't exist back then. Fullmer, a full fledged MW, overpowered Basilio.

1957-09-23 : Carmen Basilio 153½ lbs beat Sugar Ray Robinson 160 lbs by SD in round 15 of 15

• Location: Yankee Stadium, Bronx, New York, USA
• Referee: Al Berl 6-9
• Judge: Ait Aadi 9-5
• Judge: Bill Recht 8-6

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 6-6
• World Middleweight Championship (1st defense of 4th reign by Robinson)
• Photo #2, Photo #3, Photo #4

Notes

• There was a crowd of 38,072.
• The gross gate was $566,467 and the net gate was $481,417.
• More than 170 theaters in 39 states and Canada showed the fight on closed circuit television.
• Robinson's purse was $483,666 and Basilio's was $211,679.
• The federal government filed a notice of levy on $514,000 of Robinson's income to collect anticipatory taxes.
• A poll of 47 sports writers at ringside showed 26 thought Basilio won, 17 favored Robinson and four called it even.
• The fight was named The Ring Fight of the Year for 1957.

External Links

• "Basilio Dethrones Sugar Ray" Associated Press, September 24, 1957
• "Basilio Wins Middle Title By Decision" United Press, September 24, 1957

1958-03-25 : Carmen Basilio 153 lbs lost to Sugar Ray Robinson 159¾ lbs by SD in round 15 of 15

• Location: Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, USA
• Referee: Frank Sikora 69-66
• Judge: John Bray 64-71
• Judge: Franklin Spike McAdams 64-72

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 63-70
• World Middleweight Championship (1st defense by Basilio)
• Photo #2, Photo #3, Photo #4, Photo #5, Photo #6

Notes

• There was a crowd of 17,976.
• The gross gate was $351,955 and the net gate was $278,108.
• Each fighter collected 30% of the net gate, an estimated $300,000 from closed circuit TV and $30,000 from the national radio broadcast.
• Basilio's left eye was swollen shut. The Associated Press reported: "By the time the sixth round started, there was scarcely a slit in the champion's puffed eye."
• A ringside poll had 28 writers scoring the fight for Robinson, one favoring Basilio and one calling it even.
• The fight was named The Ring Fight of the Year for 1958.

External Link

• "Sugar Ray Edges Basilio; Regains Tittle In Brutal Bout" Associated Press, March 26, 1958

 

Leonard by decision, though Basilio is much better technically than given credit for.

 

Leonards speed makes the difference winning him a decision in a great tussle.

 

Leonard's speed as a factor:

1953-09-18 : Carmen Basilio 147 lbs lost to Kid Gavilan 146¾ lbs by SD in round 15 of 15

• Location: War Memorial Auditorium, Syracuse, New York, USA
• Referee: George Walsh 6-8
• Judge: Harold Barnes 6-7
• Judge: Jack Kimball 7-5

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• World Welterweight Title

• Odds: Gavilan opened as 3 1/2-to-1 favorite, and closed as a 5-to-1 favorite.
• Basilio had the best of the early rounds and dropped Gavilan for a count of nine in the second round, but he let his advantage slip away. This was only the second time Gavilan had ever been floored in his career; Ike Williams did it first in 1948. Gavilan punished Basilio in the 10th, pinning his opponent against the ropes, with punches to the body. Gavilan used the bolo punch several times, but without its usual effectiveness. Basilio's eye was swollen shut by the 14th round.
• New York Times and New York Daily News both had Gavilan winning by a single round.
• Referee George Walsh, who gave the widest score in favor of out-of-towner Gavilan (8 to 6 with one even), was pelted with garbage as he left the ring after the bout.
• The bout was held on the Jewish Holiday of Yom Kippur, which probably hurt attendance.
• Attendance: 6,440; Gross: $74,317; Net: $57,159.37

Sources: Syracuse Post-Standard; The Ring Dec. 1953, p.15

• Unofficial AP scorecard - 6-6-3 Draw
• Unofficial UP scorecard - 8-6-1 Gavilan
• Purses: (app. with % of gate and TV monies) Gavilan - $34,000, Basilio - $17,000

Post fight comments

• "If you can't make the weight, you have to give it up. It all depends on what the doctor says. At 150 lbs. Basilio would have been no problem. Maybe the Kid had better go after the middleweights. He could beat both Bobo Olson and Randy Turpin." -Angel Lopez, Gavilan's manager, claiming Gavilan can no longer make 147 comfortably.

• "I licked him. I licked him good. I want to fight him again as soon as I can. He never hurt me but he stuck his thumb in my eye with one of those bolos." -Carmen Basilio

 

Sugar Win's ,he's a always a step ahead. But there are moments in the fight where Leonard digs his feet in to the canvas and goes toe to toe. Carmen's face would tell the tale but sugar doesn't escape unscathed with a swollen eye .
Unanimous for Ray but close in part's.

 

leonard beats scrawny Basilio at 147, 154, 160 all day every day

 

i just cant believe anyone on earth could ever give unworthy Basilio the fight over Robinson

 

Basilio was a smaller version of Marciano. Strong, durable, determined, hard punching and tough as nails. Leonard was a great fighter and so this would have been a war. Basilio would have made it a war. I can see where Leonard could pull off a decision but Basilio would have his moments. In any case, two outstanding fighters.

 

You've come a long long way.

 

Regarding Basilio, one of the all time great responses to a question was made by Basilio. Howard Cossel interviewed Basilio prior to the Robinson fight that Basilio won. Cosell said, "Carmen I've interviewed 10 sportswriters and 9 of the 10 pick Robinson the win tonight, what is your response". Carmen Basilio replied, " Nine of them are wrong".

 

stop saying that. i hate your guts!

 

no, they were all right

Carmen needed corrupt judges to GIVE him the fight. the decision was a robbery. Robinson never lost that fight

 

Oh come on, getting the odd weekend leave pass from the insane asylum is far better than where you've been not so long ago