Ray Leonard vs. Pernell Whitaker

Pea & SuzieQ do you have lists of your top 10 H2H at welter?

I would love to see it if you do.

 

h2h? hmmm.....lets see


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Tommy Hearns
4. Jose Napoles
5. Emile Griffith
6. Joe Walcott
7. Kid Gavilan
8. Charley Burley
9. Luis Rodriguez
10. Roberto Duran

HM: Oscar De La Hoya

 

Off the top of the head, though it will probably take some revision:

Robinson
Leonard
Griffith
Hearns
Napoles
Gavilan
Burley
Walker

The last two spots are between Basilio, Duran, Whitaker, and Rodriguez.

 

No mention of Delahoya? he is a nightmare h2h with his Boxing Skills, Jab, Combination, left hook, handspeed, and durability.

 

I dont agree with this in terms of AGAINST the division's historical absolute elite. I know ive just started something that will most likely be very long-winded, but we've discussed Oscar before, and not imo.

 

At 140 he was better in a head to head sense, given his size advantage and lesser competition. At 147, I think he proved against guys like Quartey, Mosley, Whitaker that he wasn't one of the all time elites in a head to head sense at WW. Again, I thought an aging Whitaker beat him, so I'd definitely take a prime Pea to do so. I just don't see him hanging(that's unfair, he'd hang with most of them, but he wouldn't win) with most of the guys I mentioned or you mentioned, other than Barbados Joe due to the eras debate(even though I rate Barbados Joe extremely high in a P4P ATG sense), but that's for another day.

 

Ok then let me ponder this question. How do you see a Kosta Tyszu vs Oscar De La Hoya fight at 140lb going?


You always bring up the mosely whitaker quartey fights for oscar, all very good fighters........but you never bring up the Wilfredo Rivera, or Disobley Hurtado fights at welterweight for whitaker, these guys werent good fighters yet nearly beat whitaker

 

He'll just use the age excuse for Whitaker. Whitaker easily schooled Gary Jacobs and Jake Rodriguez, but as soon as he fights Rivera and Hurtado, he's a complete wash-up and he's so far removed from his prime.

 

Does any1 have a link for Pea-Oscar? I so need to judge this fight soon as! MUCH appreciated if any1 has it.

 

We will always disagree on that. I thought oscar stepped up too soon at 147lb to take on one of the p4p worlds best fighters, but i thought oscar won by 2 points. Whitaker may have outlanded him on punchstats, knocked him down, but I also thought Oscar landed the heavier punches was somewhat the more effective aggresor, and whitakers clowning and slapping was not enough though he did make oscar miss alot.... and even though he got knocked down(very controversially), whitaker also lost a 10-8 third round with the point being taken away on headbutt.

A prime whitaker was a 135lb, so unless u want to throw the 140lb version of whitaker in vs a 140lb version of oscar in that case I see it being a very close fight whitaker taking a 115-113 type decision based on styles.

 

Yet u have shane mosely #7 all time lightweight? what elite fighters at 135lb did he beat? oscar at 135lb beat better opposition than shane did, and did so just as dominating....and shane basically went 1-1 with oscar in a h2h sense. I think oscar defintley rates higher than shane. Shanes whole career is based on the close controversial wins over oscar, while oscar without shane is still a great fighter.

 

Leonard by close, 2 point unanimous decision. I wouldn't bet against Sweetpea to take this fight via the same score. Either man is capable of winning this fight, not by knockout against each other though.

 

All respectable posters here didnt give me any grief over my ranking of Shane, they took it that i sort of concede it wasnt a great pick, but a personal pick. The way you reply to PARTS of posts is becoming legendary!

You have replied to a post that you dont have much of an argument too, which you know i have discussed with you before and have a good argument in a debate of, so you have just changed the subject to something that i did a while ago in an attempt to embarrass me, very honourable.

On the subject of Shane-Oscar, Shane was probably at his best h2h at 147, Oscar too, at that peak for peak contest, Shane won a clear decision. Then at 154, where Shane had never even fought before, and lost his next 2, Oscar beat him (imo). I dont even know why im discussing this anyway. The post you replied to of mine was on the subject of Oscar not getting into the top 10 h2h welters of all-time

EDIT= That was a reply to your last message Suzie

 

He was past his prime after the Vasquez fight(during really) but was truly on the slide by the fights following it. Jake the Snake was not much of a fighter, so unless Pea was completely shot by then(which he wasn't) he'd have had no trouble with him, same with Jacobs. Hurtado was a difficult style-matchup for Pea at the time, given his slower reflexes, less mobile legs, etc. Anyone who actually watched Whitaker in any fight post-Vasquez(and in the Vasquez fight) could see a major difference. Even in the way he held his hands, which he started to do more in his later days.

Are you telling me that Whitaker was in his prime vs Rivera and Hurtado? Were they then better fighters than Chavez and McGirt, who was top 5 P4P and WW champ? Seriously, instead of being a ****** and arguing with me for the sake of arguing like usual, actually think about what you're saying. You sound like even more of a dunce than usual, which is really saying something.

 

Leonard by decison