Ray Mancini v Edwin Rosario

Camacho was still successful but he wasn't the ridiculously talented confident fighter he had been. Take a look at him against Ramirez, a stupendous performance and Ramirez didn't win a single round by most. To be harsh, Camacho didn't show much love for the more punishing side of boxing post Rosario........in short he later lacked the toughness and embracement of the battle thousands of guys have shown.

• After the fight, Camacho said: "If I fight him again, I want a million dollars. If I'm gonna come out looking like a Cabbage Patch doll, I want to get paid for it."
• Many believe the fight with Rosario changed Camacho. Wallace Matthews of ESPNNewYork.com wrote, "Camacho was never the same fighter. He still boxed like an angel, but when the going got rough, he ran like the devil. He took no chances. And unless he was absolutely sure that his opponent had been declawed, he rarely went in for the knockout."

Mancini also wasn't in there copping wear and tear and wasn't a boxer type either. Still impressive for sure but give me the Camacho pre
Rosario over Ray all day long. Truth be told Mancini probably almost fought to his own level. As per above Camacho lost his enormous shine. He also lived in a very fast lane let it be said.

Your stance differs on Mancini's close fights vs Rosario's. Fans aren't quite split on EOTR as you missed the draw. A lot of people are also turned off by Camacho's post Rosario style (against more dangerous guys) of running and not engaging when it comes to scoring. A guy like WB for example would have Mancini winning it easily. It was close yes. The AP and LA Times both had it for Camacho as well.

Camacho didn't clearly win as a number of people score it for Rosario and a decent amount saw it as a draw. As a matter of fact your eye on the ring has a 60% disagreement verdict noting that there are quite a few draws in there which backs my assertion - Camacho did not clearly win. To you he did but to many he didn't.

There's been a lot of attempts to make sense of the match in here with all that stuff above but it's an exercise steeped mostly in futility. The Ramirez fights won't decide the winner and neither would the Bramble fights - absolutely. What we do know is that Rosario had an incredible punch.

I agree, it's not overly cut and dried. The main thing holding me back is that turnaround in the Ramirez fight but i am dubious Mancini could take the sort of fire he did and still be there. Could be wrong.

Chavez
STRONGEST

Jose Luis Ramirez: He was a southpaw who not only took a good shot but he gave a good shot. The fact he could land a punch and hurt you and take a punch and not be hurt, that was his greatest virtue.

Davis had actually picked up his power and it started right at the Candyman Coverson fight. They recognised his need to punch with some more power and he totally bossed Coverson who was quite a good fighter.

You are right he fell short a couple of times but he was primed by the time he fought Rosario and the most well rounded he'd ever been. It's sorta unfair to say he fell short against Rosario given how close he came IMO.

Mancini might beat him clearly but he might not too. I'd favor Ray but a Davis win would hardly surprise and nor would it have surprised in 83/84.

Absolutely, i have no trouble with anyone picking Mancini. I think Rosario is sharper and more compact and Mancini wasn't hard to hit. As posted earlier by people Chavez took plenty of hellacious shots and Ramirez took some absolute thunder before managing to come out the other side. I'm not convinced Ray could.

It's a great matchup from Jel, one we haven't had for quite some time.

 

It's miles from cut and dried tho which is the way you depicted it.

 

True - taking his time and playing the longer waiting game was Futches exact plan.

 

What a great post and this indeed is a great match up and this thread has been entertaining and very good debates.
You know the one thing that people tend to forget about Camacho vs Rosario is this - Camacho more then stung Rosario in the first two rounds and I often wonder if this is what caused Rosario to not got all out after hurting Camacho in round 5.
After all Rosario basically was very economical with his punches from round 6-10.
I often wondered if Rosario would have gone after Camacho like he did in the 11th and 12th rounds could Camacho have lasted much less won that bout?

 

Thanks Cobra and nice post of your own and input thru the thread. After the fight Rosario copped a lot for not being far more aggressive. You are completely on track as this is what Camacho said - "he didn't have no killer instinct". It's like he knows himself he was lucky Rosario wasn't as aggressive as he should be.

The flipside to this is that Rosario took on the criticism and said next time he'd go right after him. Rosario's next fight was Bramble and you can certainly see the extra intent and heat he displayed in that one!!!!

 

Rosario shook Camacho badly in the 11th as well as the 5th. It was a great, very close fight, maybe 7-5 Camacho on rounds but the two 10-8 ‘s in NYC scored that way Rosario takes it.

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@JohnThomas1 I haven't really got much else to add to this thread or the points you made, to be fair all your points were fair. And i don't necessarily disagree with any of it, although we may differ on the outcome. Overall again always a pleasure to share some thoughts with you, i'd like to end this by posting my scorecard for Camacho/Rosario, and see what you guys make of it.

1 Camacho
2 Camacho
3 Rosario
4 Rosario
5 Rosario
6 Camacho
7 Camacho
8 Camacho
9 Camacho
10 Camacho
11 Rosario
12 Rosario

115-113 Camacho

 

For sure DP, a great discussion with many fine points from various angles and quality input from numerous posters. Just how we like it.

That's a fair score but it's only 1 round difference between them. It's easy to see why many score it a draw and some find Rosario to have pipped it.

There's quite a few cards tucked away around here that score it for Rosario. World Boxing tagged it for Rosario 115-113.

 

Here's George scoring Rosario vs Ramirez and Randall

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...-watch-today-scorecard-thread.186016/page-451

 

I think the big debate is whether you thought the 5th round was a 10-8 round, I personally scored it 10-9 for Rosario. But I could easily see how someone could score it 10-8, and if you were to give a 10-8 round without a knockdown then this would probably be the one.

Overall though I did feel like Camacho had the better of it outboxing Rosario, but Rosario definitely had the biggest moments in the fight. And he finished strong aswell which may of swayed some people in his favour.

 

I've finally found sweet_scientists card, his passion was scoring.

Edwin Rosario vs. Hector Camacho: 115-112 Rosario
Camacho: 1,2,6,9 and 10.
Rosario: 3,4,5 ( 10-8 ) ,7,8,11 and 12.

 

Here's a few older threads to add extra opinion onto Jel's excellent thread here

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/edwin-rosario-vs-ray-mancini.556615/

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/edwin-rosario-vs-ray-mancini.1909/

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/mancini-vs-rosario.470155/

 

'Interesting tack.' Made me smile.

 

It would be a extremely exciting fight early on, but Ray's physicality would get him a late round stoppage over Rosario.

 

Rosario KO 8.