Thanks Bummy. George Bernard Shaw said it best. " It is a pity that youth is wasted on the young "...cheers!
So, by default, every fighter after 1960 is on the juice . That's your argument? Knew a quite a few of people in the upper end of boxing during the 90's. Never heard even the hint that Mercer was dirty and I did hear it about a lot of guys. I guess I should just assume that from Sonny Liston on, they all were.
You can assume that if you want. I absolutely agree that a man can be 220 in-shape at 6'1 - and natural. I'm not arguing that Mercer was taking steroids. I would say that most men are grown by age 27, and you should be able to gauge their 'natural weight' by that age. Of course it is possible that Mercer put on some MUSCLE naturally after he went pro, or that he was 'drained' at 200 pounds. It's also possible that he put on several pounds of FAT with that to get to 220+. And it's also possible that he put on some muscle with the use of anabolic agents. A combination of all the above factors seems reasonable too. It's actually quite an ordinary scenario.
Ludicrous ?? Your saying no chance Mercers heavier size and strength has any significant effect against Dempsey?? Your calling Ludicrous on that ??? Big and very skilled heavyweights over 200lbs in Dempseys era did not exist at the level of overall skill they have ever since the 70's for the love of jesus,, you know that. Its not a secret as since the 70's the heavys are bigger still. Mercer was simply bigger and stronger than Dempsey. He could BRAWL like Dempsey. Plus he had a good jab and used it when brawling. Plus his chin was like granite and tested against some of todays biggest hitters and proved itself beyond doubt. Well I am calling double Ludicrous on you.
BB, there is some truth in what you say, yet I think your opinion is also as one sided as those who thing size & strength is everything. 1) Some do not lose speed & flexiblity as they get bigger. Especially if body fat is kept low. Tyson was under 6' & heavily muscled & lean at 215-220 & was very fast. Could he have been faster with less muscle? Dubtful, but he would sacrifice power. Some NFL guys are very fast with much more bulk,e ven running backs. 2) Interesting about Gotch. But he is listed as 210 & 5'11", bulty for his era. In wrestling weight is evern more important, no way anyone that size is going to beat the massive guys who are very skilled. 3) Speed is one factor, not alone. Especially i the biggest weight categies. Liston, orreman, & Joe Louis (him just of foot) did not have much speed, fuhgettibout Marciano. 4) Baer's shoulders look narrow compared to Primo Carnero. Yes he would be much bigger now, not the widest shoulder/skeleton though. 5) Boxers are also heavier now just due to significantly greater training & nutrition.
There's plenty of reason to believe Mercer would give Dempsey a good fight. There's little to suggest he'd win. Bigger men always crumbled before Dempsey for a very simple reason - there was more target. Mercer is there to be hit. He's simply not going to tough it out with a two-handed puncher who was vicious on the inside. There would be no rest bite, similar to Holyfield who buzzed him with a hook. Dempsey would drill him to the body, swoop hooks from underneath to the jaw, cheek, eye. In the unlikely event he endures his complexion would swell in tandem with the referees' pity. A fine contender in the 1990's; against Dempsey, and it would be the same against Louis, he would stumble before us like a bloated piñata, absorbing the kind of lumps that turn a solid jaw into a curse. Over 60% of his punches would harmlessly fly over Jack's bobbing head, and then, with great speed, Jack would capitalise during those sweet moments when you're unable to brace, rather than chop away like Lewis. Upon walking away from the wreckage modern fans would consider whether Dempsey could do the same to Samuel Peter.
Excellent Ted...Dempsey's weight was misconceiving because from the waist up he had a powerful set of shoulders and biceps for a 210-15 pound heavyweight. His legs were slender in comparison with his upper torso, thus his lean weight. He often after koing his opponent put his gloved arms under his opponents armpits hauling them to their feet...Nat Fleischer described Dempsey as "amazingly strong...
Seamus - My post in no way refers to whether or not the 200lb 27 year old Mercer was the best Mercer & you know I wasn't insinuating that. We both know that wasn't the best Mercer. My post was referring to Mercer's considerable weight gain much later in his athletic life in relation to Dempsey's apparent increase from 60 as a young new pro to his peak 190ish. But you knew that anyway, you rascal you! PS Unforgiven worded it far better than I managed to in his post #36.
