Ray Robinson’s best win at welterweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Aug 25, 2020.


Page 1 of 3
  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,396
    26,664
    Jun 26, 2009
    He’s regarded as the greatest ever at 147 pretty much universally, yet if you look closely there’s his wins over middleweight Jake LaMotta (which are fine wins, don’t get me wrong), lightweight Sammy Angott, Henry Armstrong who was at the end of his rope and ...

    What’s his best win at this weight? Is it Kid Gavilan? Marty Servo? Fritzie Zivic on Ray’s way up? Surely not Tommy Bell, although Bell gave a good account of himself when they fought for the vacant title.

    I’m absolutely not trying to make the point that Robinson is overrated, nor that his resume at 147 is lacking.

    I’m asking what people think is his crowning achievement at welterweight against a welterweight.
     
    Saintpat, Aug 25, 2020
    Saintpat, Aug 25, 2020
    #1
    George Crowcroft, Rumsfeld, TipNom and 2 others like this.
  2. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    Sugar Ray Robinson's best win at 147 lbs was against Tommy Bell.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    #2
    William Walker likes this.
  3. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    The biggest names he defeated at welterweight were LaMotta, Armstrong, Zivic, Bell, and Gavilan. I don't go with Armstrong and Zivic cuz of their ages, and I don't go with LaMotta cuz he never really beat him decisively back then, and I don't go with Bell because he's the least famous. I have to go with one of his wins over Kid Gavilan.
     
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    #3
    wutang, The Senator and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,325
    11,717
    Mar 19, 2012
    He carried Armstrong. That fight was a favor to Henry. Get him a payday.
    He beat Zivic 2x in non title fights very early in his career. Its amazing that Ray was able to do that to a guy who had been a recent world champion. He stopped Zivic in their 2nd fight.
    That would be like Ray Leonard stopping Carlos Palomino in his first year as a pro. This is a tough one to top.

    In a pure boxing sense Kid Gavilan was the greatest Welterweight Ray beat. He was more mature at 28 years of age to the Kid's 23 years.
    Even George Costner could be considered a top flight win at the time they faced off he was highly regarded. Some writers thought enough of Costner to give him the nickname "Sugar". That spelled doom for Costner but it speaks to his talent. He was a tall rangy puncher, very dangerous.
    Tommy Bell was good, solid. It was for the title. I guess it depend on how you look at it. Ray beat alot of good Welterweights.
    I would have to say Kid Gavilan.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
    ETM, Aug 25, 2020
    ETM, Aug 25, 2020
    #4
    bcr, LoadedGlove, mcvey and 2 others like this.
  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,396
    26,664
    Jun 26, 2009
    I’d have to say Gavilan too.
     
    Saintpat, Aug 25, 2020
    Saintpat, Aug 25, 2020
    #5
    Greg Price99, George Crowcroft, William Walker and 2 others like this.
  6. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    #6
    mcvey and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  7. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    Oh no a knockdown, Lol
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    #7
    William Walker likes this.
  8. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    I thought those were your favorite kinds of fights? Robbie gets knocked down. He comes back and drops Tommy....
     
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    #8
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    They are my friend, especially when you post them. Ha Ha.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 25, 2020
    #9
    LoadedGlove, George Crowcroft and William Walker like this.
  10. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    Hey, it's only too unfortunate that Robinson vs. Bell wasn't filmed.
     
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 25, 2020
    #10
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,903
    Mar 3, 2019
    Gavilan and it's not especially close IMO. His wins over Servo are seriously underrated, though.
     
    George Crowcroft, Aug 26, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Aug 26, 2020
    #11
    DrederickTatum, Greg Price99, TipNom and 2 others like this.
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,887
    44,671
    Apr 27, 2005
    The Gavilan wins for sure. Imagine being able to watch them.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 26, 2020
    JohnThomas1, Aug 26, 2020
    #12
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  13. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,167
    7,452
    Apr 29, 2020
    Gavilan, then Servo.
     
    Mike Cannon, Aug 26, 2020
    Mike Cannon, Aug 26, 2020
    #13
    Jel likes this.
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,016
    48,121
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yeah it's obviously Kid G.

    Could be highest quality contest ever arranged between two welterweights that, as in, the two best welterweights who faced each other head to head, ever.
     
    McGrain, Aug 26, 2020
    McGrain, Aug 26, 2020
    #14
    Greg Price99, LoadedGlove, TipNom and 1 other person like this.
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,561
    21,927
    Sep 15, 2009
    Why is there any debate? I was fully expecting to see every single post saying Kid Gavilan.

    Any other answer is, best case scenario, wrong.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 26, 2020
    lufcrazy, Aug 26, 2020
    #15
    Greg Price99, TipNom, Bujia and 1 other person like this.
Page 1 of 3