razor ruddock vs jerry quarry??????

The man held wins over Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Mac Foster, Floyd Patterson, Buster Mathis, Thad Spencer, Larry Middleton among others yet the guy who managed to beat an overweight, recovering drug user Dokes and a washed out Bonecrusher Smith is supposedly being criminally underrated. Good to know.

 

Quarry is a fighter who in my eyes is in a category of his own.. Even though he never won a title, his resume is superior to some lineal champions I can think of, and he was a relatively small man ( comparatively ) fighting in a terrific era of great athletic fighters. I still think that Ruddock's style and physical attributes could pose some problems for him, but I say that with no real conviction... Especially after listening to some of the good arguments here.

 

I never said Ruddock was underrated... Quarry is definately overrated on THIS forum though.

Quarry beat Lyle but gets way too much credit for it IMO. Lyle would get better after the Quarry fight. IMO Lyle actually became better than Quarry ever was.

Lyle had stopped Mathis in 2 and Middleton in 3 prior to the Quarry fight. What did he really learn in these 2 early KO wins? He turned pro at age 30 and was still learning at this point. A case can be made that Lyle won 4 or 5 rounds out of 12 vs. Quarry but the judges had it more lopsided for Quarry. Lyle had been fighting for less than 2 years.

He had yet to fight Peralta x2, Garcia, Blin, a rematch with Middleton (a decision win), Bonavena, Ellis, Kirkman, Young x2, Ali, Shavers, Foreman, Bugner, etc. If you don't think Lyle got better after Quarry... you're fvcking crazy!

43-7-1 (31) overall. At his best he was only stopped twice (Foreman LKOby5 in 1976 and Ali LKOby11 in 1975). He dropped Foreman twice. He was actually ahead on points vs. Ali prior to the stoppage, many feel the fight should not have been stopped.

When Quarry lost he lost badly even in his prime. He was easily outboxed by an old Eddie Machen, I thought he should have lost twice to an old Patterson, he was stopped by an old Chuvalo, gave Ellis a good fight but lost, he was stopped twice by Frazier and Ali, stopped by Norton... he didn't even give these guys much trouble at all.

As for Buster Mathis? He really wasn't much of a pro. His claim to fame was beating Frazier as an amateur.

I don't give a shlt about Ruddock. I'm getting sick of people using Quarry's win over Lyle as some kind of measuring stick. He didn't beat a peak Lyle!

Young
Lyle
Quarry
Shavers...

not Quarry, Young, Lyle, Shavers... no way!

I'm also sick of people thinking Quarry was better than Norton just because he may not have been at his absolute best when he lost to him. Norton beat Quarry with ease... had Quarry gave him trouble maybe I'd feel differently. Foreman scared of Quarry? GTFOH! Foreman says some crazy shlt but Foreman would have destroyed Quarry with ease.

 

Based on what? He had decent losing efforts but his record of wins was no better, arguably worse.

Quarry was in his prime against Machen while Lyle was green against Quarry. Okay then.

He wasn't much of a pro because he had the misfortunate of coming across Joe Frazier and Jerry Quarry. On film he was a big man with skill, speed and a decent punch.

 

:blood

 

A bad match for Quarry............ Quarry would be killed if Razor lands his smash...

MR.BILL

 

True, Quarry got better after Machen... still, Machen was getting old and beat him clearly. Yes, by the time he fought Norton he was not 100%... but I still think prime vs. prime Norton stops him.

My point was that a lot of people put way too much weight on the win over Lyle.

 

Quarry never fought Young or Foreman. Lyle went 0-3 vs. these men but did more than hold his own vs. them (mainly talking about the Foreman fight) I dont think Quarry would have done as well vs. them. Quarry never fought Bonavena or Bugner either.

Lyle never fought Frazier or Norton but I think he would have done better vs. them than Quarry did... Lyle certainly did better vs. Foreman than Frazier did x2 or Norton.

They had some common opponents-

Ali-
Quarry- LKOby3, 1970 and LKOby7, 1972 (Quarry never had a chance in either fight)

Lyle- LKOby11, 1975 (Lyle ahead on points priort to stoppage and many feel it was an early stoppage)

Shavers-
Quarry KO1, 1972

Lyle KO6, 1975

Middleton-
Quarry W10, 1972

Lyle KO3, 1972

Mathis-
Quarry W12, 1969

Lyle KO2, 1972

Memphis Al Jones-
Quarry W10, 1966 and KO5, 1967 (Quarry down x2)

Lyle KO5, 1974

 

Pre-Louis-

Sullivan
Corbett
Fitzsimmons
Jeffries
Hart
Burns
Johnson
Willard
Dempsey
Tunney
Schmeling
Sharkey
Carnera
Baer
Braddock

Pre Tyson-

Louis
Charles
Walcott
Marciano
Patterson
Johansson
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
M. Spinks

Tyson

Pre-Klitschko

Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Moorer
Foreman
Briggs (as much as I hate it)
Lewis
Rahman

Klitschko

So, which one of these guys had a worse resume than Quarry?

Not many.

Of the most modern list I'll give you Briggs but that's it.

Rahman beat Lewis by KO... that's bigger than Quarry's whole career. Rahman's KO win over Corris Sanders was very good. His wins over Berbick, Obed Sullivan, and others are decent.

Douglas beat Tyson by KO... his wins over Tex Cobb, Greg Page, David Jaco, Wimpy Halstead, Trevor Berbick, and Oliver McCall ain't bad either.

Moorer? He beat Holyfield, Schulz, Botha, and Bean among others. His wins over Cooper, Bonecrusher, Swindell, and even Jirov are decent. At LHW his wins over Ramzi Hassan, Leslie Stewart, and Frankie Swindell are pretty good. He outboxed an old Foreman for 9 rounds before being stopped in the 10. He gave Holyfield fits in their rematch before being stopped after 8. Was stopped in 1 by Tua after he stopped caring.

At least these guys had 1 win vs. a great... Quarry can't say that.

Shavers wasn't great. Lyle was a good fighter but a little green when he fought Quarry. Who else did he beat? Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, who cares? Did he even give Ali, Frazier, or Norton a minutes worth of trouble in those 5 fights? No!

 

BEING THAT its hard to exactly rate ,Jerry Quarry is around #25-35 all-time. Its silly how some of you guys rate fighters & plain stupid your reasons!!!!! Quarry was 13th fight out boxed by machen.Chuvalo ko was a fault of not hearing the count. No BIG EXCUSE!!! Jerry just plain not in Ali class. Very good wins over Spencer,Floyd,Lyle, Bodell 1 st rd. ko,very good &underatedmiddleton,2 rd ko Scrapiron who took smokin Joe 10!!! Jerry was right there with Joe in 1st fracas!! JERRY HEAD & shoulders above very overated Rudduck, Jerry wihin 6 by KO!!!!!atsch

 

Ill take Quarry.

 

Quarry. He had more elements in his game and thrived on big dumb sluggers like Ruddock. In his prime, Quarry's problems were when he was either smothered (Frazier) or forced to go forward against a boxer (Ali, Ellis etc.). Ruddock presents neither problem; all he has is power, and you need more against someone with Quarry's chin.

 

Exactly.

Boxing brains. Quarry showed that skill against against top 10 competition to win fights. When did Ruddock? He was always the guy that needed boxing smarts and his career turns out lots better. And a much higher workrate wouldn't have hurt either. He threw 25 punches a round and still needed a bunch of breathers every round. And that short Quarry left hook was not telegraphed and is definately going to work against this defense. Or should I say what defense of Ruddock? Quarry has the much better defense and that certainly is not a statement you can make very often. That was usually his undoing but it is not a disadvantage when comparing defenses in this match.

 

...but do you need much more?

Quarry was dropped more than a few times. Quarry was stopped a fair amount. Yes, his chin was pretty good and the stoppage losses were due to cuts for the most part... still a stoppage though. Being prone to cuts is being prone to a stoppage loss... if I say he was not so durable, I'm not really talking about his chin.

Ruddock was pretty durable when he was at his best. Quarry didn't have the kind of power that would bother Ruddock at all. Ruddock was stronger than most of the guys Quarry fought, if not all of them. Quarry wouldn't be able to use rough tactics on the inside vs. Ruddock with any real success. Ruddock was also taller with a longer reach than most of the guys Quarry beat. Ruddock was also heavier and like I said before... much stronger than most who lost to Quarry.

I don't really know who would win (none of us do) but don't short change Ruddock in this fight.