Razor Ruddock vs Rocky Marciano

Maurielo never dropped Louis.
Louis could definitely be dropped by Ruddock though, not saying he would be of course.

 

I will make two observations.

The average weight of somebody's opponents is not the only only measure of how tested a fighter's chin is.

Level of opposition is also an important consideration.

Do you think that Marciano's chin was better or worse than Joe Louis's for example?

Secondly history shows that it is genetically quite possible for a middleweight to have an iron chin at heavyweight.

 

Yes its possible if the middleweight roided and ate his neck and head to HW size and has a great defense meaning he rolls with punches and takes the sting off.

We arent talking about a hypothetical 230lb roid-marciano with much better defense.

The actual marciano couldnt take Ruddocks shots. No way.

Or are you telling me Tyson gets knocked down and hurt by the guys that dropped Rocky?

I dont understand why these threads continue to be made. Its just unfair to Rocky who i rate very highly historically and have tremendous respect for.
Makes most of us look like Rocky "haters"

 

That is true, but if you have one power puncher whose 215 and another whose 195, the heavier punches will usually hit harder because he can get more mass and leverage into his punches.

I don't think 195 Dempsey hit harder than 215 Liston if they both hit a machine using all their power for one punch. That's different from comparing Dempsey to a 215 feather fist like Chris Byrd, of course Dempsey hits harder.

 

I agree the average weight of your opponents isn't the end all be all for determining chin/durability, you also have to factor in styles and rank/elite level ability.

Here's the problem: Rocky didn't face very many big punchers even for his era/weight.

Joe Louis and Rocky fought some of the same opponents. With the exception of the occasional really big guy (Baer brothers, Simon, Carnera, etc) Louis didn't face very many big guys and mostly fought the same weight range (185-195 with occasional fringe cruiser sized 205 guys). Louis was decked way more often than Rocky being dropped by Schmeling, Galento, etc regardless of skill or style so he definitely had the more wobbly chin.

In regards to middleweights, exceptions don't ignore the general rule. Even if you found one freakishly durable middleweight who could eat HW punches, that doesn't change the fact average middles get obliterated by even below average heavies. There's levels to this.

 

Sure, but I'm just saying that getting dropped by a sub 200 lbs heavyweight doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't take a punch from a bigger heavyweight

 

Roiding and adding muscle doesn't make a blind bit of difference to your chin.

 

Of course they can.

Elite boxers that take steroids to add muscle do so to enhance their performance, which will include adding muscle mass to and strengthening their neck, to help them better absorb head punches.

Look at James Toney's neck when he fought at MW and then look at it when he fought at HW. I can only respectfully say that it should be obvious that his far thicker neck at HW will have been conducive to better absorbing head punches.

 

If you compare tale of the tape of champions over the years, every single dimension has increased on average over time.

The one exception is neck circumference.

There is only so much that you can do to increase the strength of your neck, and fighters have always done it.

 

I honestly think that you could find a 185lb fighter with a chin as good as you want.

 

So you think Evander Holyfield takes Mike Tyson, Lewis and Foremans right hands at 185lbs?

I guess he should have not added a single pound and just used his speed to outbox them? No point in adding muscle and outboxing Bowe, should have just gone back to cruiser-size and made him look slow as molasses.

 

Sorry fella, trying to convince me that James Toney's neck here - https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/113045 - was as big and robust as here - https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/n...-a-right-during-their-wbc-news-photo/71775780 - is an exercise in futility.