Razor Ruddock vs Rocky Marciano

Most laughably untrue thing I've ever seen on this site. Their were no Ruddock's around in Marciano's era, and the closest thing to it, was Nino Valdez who never got his shot at Marciano despite being number one contender, and rightfully earning it.

So no. Ruddock was absolutely something new to Marciano and would present speed, power, and a dangerous left hook Rocky didn't know existed.

 

Ruddock punched hard but he fought a lot of tomato cans even after he had moved up the ladder of heavyweights. So there was an awareness of vulnerability. Also, I think there is something inauthentic about him. He fought at below 190 for the first three years of his career, and then he quickly started gaining weight. Later in his career Floyd Patterson briefly joined his team but Floyd was unable to help him. I don't know what the story was there. Ruddock did fight well against Tyson but got bombed out in two by Lewis. There you saw his ceiling. If I were his manager I'd be eager to accept a challenge from Marciano. But as a betting man I'd be reluctant to load up on Razor. With Rocky you always knew what you had. You never really knew with Ruddock.

 

No magic, I'm just not blind to the fact the 230 opponent has 40 lbs of muscle over the 185 opponent. If you think that doesn't matter I seriously have to question your ability to analyze fights.

I agree Louis is more dangerous than Ruddock even if Ruddock may have more raw 1 punch power. Louis is faster, more accurate, had better timing, and was a better finisher. The Louis that Rocky fought was a 1-armed washed up fighter who couldn't pull the trigger.

Again, you can have an incredible chin RELATIVE to the size of the opponents you face. You just admitted Hagler's chin may not hold up against murderous punchers at 175. That's why I asked why 185 was the magic cutoff point because I assumed you would have the same mentality for iron chinned lightweights such as Chavez eating punches from middleweights. You are picking and choosing when you want to apply your standards.

 

To be hones you don't even need 185 lbs. to get some serious iron chins.

Young Stribling was little more than a light heavyweight, and he had one of the better chins of his era.

Tommy Loughran, again never much more than a light heavy.

Even Mickey Walker who held a title at welterweight, was packing some serious granite at heavy.

 

Ok, clearly we're taking 1 step forward and 2 steps backwards so let's try this one more time.

Would the "iron chinned" 175 Stribling's chin still be iron if he had to take bombs from opponents 50 lbs heavier such as Wilder, Foreman, or Tyson? Does he still have a record of 0 KO losses?

Does Tommy Loughran retire with 0 KO losses if he fought Shavers, Liston, or Bruno?

Does Walker retire with 0 KO's losses if he fought the 100 lbs heavier Joshua, Wladmir, or Lewis?

Does "iron chinned" Shane Mosley at 140 avoid a KO loss if he fights the 35 lbs heavier light heavies Beterbiev, Kovalev, or Foster?

Does "iron chinned" Winky Wright avoid KO losses if he fights the 40 lbs heavier cruiserweights Marco Huck, Herbie Hide, Gassiev?

Does "iron chinned" Willie Pep avoid a KO loss if he had to fight the 40 lbs heavier Golovkin, Hagler?


Be completely honest please. I want a yes or no.


Hell, if you think the bigger opponents are too elite, substitute them for less skilled big guys like Dillian Whyte for HW, Adonis Stevenson light HW David Lemiux for middle.

 

You are a good dance partner.

Stribling woudl start to pick up stoppage losses very quickly if you matched him against such elite big men, but I woudl expect his chin to hold up very well against men like Whyte.

Again if his chin is going to be cracked, this is where the sweet spot lies.

Even so, I wouldn't rule out Loughran going the distance against one of these men.

No, but I wouldn't rule out his chin holding up against somebody like Whyte say.

I think you get the general idea.

 

Ok so basically unless they're an elite fighter who can string punches together with good timing, accuracy, leverage, etc, you believe simply being bigger means the boxer is less likely/probably won't crack an iron chin? Even if the bigger guy legitimately hits very hard...? Without elite skill, a guy even 40, 50, 60+ lbs heavier might not be able to KO an iron chinned little guy?

Is this more or less what you are saying?

 

I think that power is the single most over rated attribute in boxing.

Yes an iron chinned small guy, will typically take the punches, of a big limited guy with power.

An ounce of delivery, is worth a pound of power.

 

I am on the Rocky Marciano train in this match up. Donovan was a good fighter, but most of his reputation was built on losing efforts. That is not a good resume to bring to the ring against Rocky Marciano. And, no, his size does not impress me enough to think he can win!

 

But Ruddock has WAY more than an "ounce" of delivery. He wasn't as good as sharp shooters such as Louis, Tyson, or even very good punchers such as Liston, Bruno, etc who have very good delivery systems.

Ruddock wasn't some mindless slugger or arm puncher with zero technique, he could land blows with frighteningly good accuracy, speed, timing, and technique. Sure he could have leaky defense and had a tendency to brawl, but he had a good delivery system.

So I can buy your logic that Rocky may be able to avoid getting KOd or maybe even beat C level heavies who weigh 40+ pounds more than him, but I do not have a lot of confidence in his chin holding up against B level 220+ punchers such as Ruddock. Let me remind you Rocky beat ZERO 220+ heavyweights, let alone 220+ heavyweights with great power.

Do I favor Ruddock to win? A little, yes. Because this is not only a much smaller man, he is a smaller man with a short reach fighting aggressively on the front foot with leaky defense against a larger man who actually has GOOD timing, accuracy, and leverage to support his lethal power. Again, we're not talking about some club fighter or crude bum with no fundamentals, Ruddock was ranked in the top 10 for years. Aren't you the same poster who always puts rankings on a pedestal when it comes to evaluating h2h ability?

Does this look like a crude, limited guy with a poor delivery system?

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To the people that are supporting Marciano, I'm asking this and I'm not asking this rhetorically I'm asking this seriously;

Who DOESN'T Rocky beat in a h2h match? I've seen the same people accross different threads say that Marciano beats Ruddock, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Fury and both the Klitschko's.

So who on earth do you think can beat the 5'11, 188lbs man with a 5'8 wingspan? Who do you think beats him and why?

 

If he used his jab and right hand more to set that shot up instead of just using his athleticism to leap in, he could have been a truly great fighter.

He just fell in love with that shot.

Its perfect for short come forward Heavyweights who cant make you pay for uppercutting from the outside but it cost him dearly later on.
I do believe Tyson punched alot of punch resistance out of him.

He absorbed enough punishment in 19 rounds to ruin or damage ANY fighter.
Tyson landed enough combined bombs to knock out 5, 10 or more top heavyweights in those 2 fights

 

Ruddock ko

 

It should also be noted that he was still stopping people, when he stepped up in competition, which is something of a test of a puncher in my eyes.

He was a bit of a flash in the pan though.

He fell off very rapidly after the Tyson fights.