I take it most of us aren't fond of boxing's no decision era. But have we ever discussed the validity of the events? Beyond the dispute of who won which can vary in news papers, we must also ask ourselves if there is no offical winner, how do we know if the fighters were always giving 100%? Quick question. Which if any of the no decision fights were filmed? I am curious to see if the effort or lack there of is up to par with traditional decision fights. I suspect a small portion of the no-decision fights were more like exhibitions than boxing matches.
Dempsey-Carpentier Leonard-Tendler Firpo-Wills Gibbons-McFarland ODowd-McCoy Miske-Dempsey Kilbane-Frush Firpo-Willard Off the top of my head were all filmed, all ND bouts, and all pretty convincing as real fights.
Just to clarify, are you saying you saw Miske-Dempsey?! Please say yes and make my day. I have seen a few of the ones you mentioned, and they look real, but they are also high level matches. Do you think some of the ND's were more like exbitions?
I have a little of Dempsey-Miske but more to the point it ended in a brutal KO. Hardly an exhibition. No, I dont think some ND bouts were signed as glorified exhibitions. I do think that some fighters like Mike McTigue, Battling Levinsky, and Al McCoy (to use three prominent examples) used the ND laws to extend their careers/reigns by not really trying to give their best but rather to make it to the finish line in order to not get KOd. You know, not really taking any chances. In my experience though the vast majority of ND fights were fought on their merits. In those days fighters seemed to have a greater appreciation of and a greater willingness to please the fans. Officials also seemed very concerned with fighters giving their best effort for the money they were paid prompting them to really ride fighters who might be perceived as dogging it to get out there and fight their heart out. Remember, one of things about the ND era is that boxing was operating in a very grey area, always under threat of being abolished. People were very aware that mismatches, fixed fights, unsatisfactory fights etc could cause a public backlash among those that paid to see the fight and felt they didnt get their moneys worth. So there was a lot of pressure to make sure these fights were good. Where there exceptions? I have no doubt. But by and large the vast majority of ND fights were real fights, fought on their merits, where the fighters put a lot of weight in the opinion of the newspaper men and fans. One look at a fighters scrapbook from this era and you can see how important ND fights were.
Hasn't a very brief clip of the Miske /Dempsey fight been in the public domain for some time or was it just the ring entrances etc?
I'm actually fond of ND fights. I don't actually like them being listed as newspaper wins, draws and losses that much. I mean, I consider that a footnote. Officially they are ND. I don't like decisions much. I prefer knock-outs. Finish fights are good.
The film thats been out there for a long time shows the ring entrance and the fighters emerging from the corners for a split second before it cuts out. I found a clip of actual fight action but its very short.
Gans-Nelson 1 and Gans-Herman were finish fights. Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that were filmed. There are probably a couple from that era Im missing.
Are you going to add to the thread? Please tell us who was in the corners because even with viewed film you have been wrong. :hi: Okay--obviously the top matches of the ND era were filmed. I still think the ND rule made fighters more likely to go through the motions, especially on the lower level fights.
You began a thread and, as it developed it became obvious you didn't know what the **** you were talking about. That you were totally unaware that no dec fights had been filmed. How is that my fault?