Re: Greater Win: PBF (against corrales) or PACQUIAO (against barrera 1)

Mab wasnt fighting guys that were on a high level...Its not hard for him to win fights if he is fighting average fighters..Juarez for example is average, peden is average, some of the other guys that he beat during that period were flat out not very good...MAB himself admitted that he was past his best days, that isnt just something that people pulled out of thier asses...

To the unknowing eye or for those that dont know what they are looking at you would think that just because he is winning that means that he is still on top of his game...But go back and watch those fights during that big time winning streak that your going on about and watch for a couple of things...One MAB balance, it was poor in most of those fight, TWO his counterpunching, and watch how many times that he had open targets and was unable to pull the trigger....

A perfect example of a fight that is past his prime yet was able to do some great things is Mosely, if matched right those great OLD fighters can still get some great win...Hamed was MAB version of Margo for Shane.. the right fight at the right time vs a highly overrated fighter with limited skills and talent...

I know that most of this is coming from the fact that people are thinking in terms of Pac vs May, but it really has nothing to do with that, two young prime p4p fighters, the build up the product the finish vs one pretty unknown fighter and an older aging fighter who was really looking past Pac, that is one of the things that people fail to speak of. IF one was to ask what was more shocking at the time it would be Pac beatting MAB, no one expected that.

 

bigtime the pacman fight.

 

Let me see.

Corrales was top 10 p4p coming off wins against Manfredy, Juuko, Derrick Gainer & Garcia.

Mab was top 3 p4p coming off wins against Hamed, Morales, Tapia & kevin Kelley.

On top of that, Pac was jumping up in weight and took MAB on as his first fight in the new weight class. This isnt even comparable, Pac-MAB by a mile!

 

I swear you are the biggest idiot on this forum. Hamed has limited skills & talent? :rofl

 

Hamed is in no comparable to Margarito. Naseem unified his division and had genuine concussive knockout power. That said, I agree that just because Marco was able to deal with old fighters like Kelley and smaller fighters like Ayala and Tapia doesn't mean he was at the top of his game.

 

So now your saying that MAB was already shot even before he fought Hamed? Are you serious? ALOT of people even thought that that was MAB's second prime. That was the win which jumpstarted his winning streak and put him into the highest levels of the P4P rankings and made him Featherweight king. And he was shot? C'mon now. No offense but let's be serious shall we?

And as far as MAB fighting guys not that high level, EM was on a high level when he fought him the 3rd time, and MAB was suppose to lose that fight. Ayala wasn't a slouch either. The thing is ANYONE can say that to pretty much majority of the boxers. Mayweather was fighting guys at 140 and 147 who weren't that high level, what are you now saying that Floyd was shot by the time he fought Oscar and Hatton? And since Tszyu, Hatton hasn't been fighting guys that where on a high level, so was he suddenly shot by the time Floyd fought him?

The fact is no matter how you try to to nitpick how a fighter does in every fight, no matter how you try point out that he's "balance" wasn't as good as before or his counterpunching wasn't as good, at the end of the day you still talking about a fight in which that fighter WON. Also, those flaws that you were talking about didn't really show that much when he fought JMM since he had pretty good balance and counterpunched well. He also didn't have problems capitalizing when JMM was open, best example was the KD. As I said, if MAB was pretty poor in his fights leading up to the JMM fight, he shouldn't have stood a change against JMM. He wouldn't have made the fight the least bit competitive. Yet he gave JMM a real tough fight. That was 4 years after his loss to Pac by the way, and MAB still performed at that high a level.

 

How many excuses will you guys come up with? He beat Ayala, Tapia, Kelley, Hamed, Morales and looses to Pac. He then goes on to BEAT Morales again, and in turn Morales BEATS Pac...so he didnt beat Morales cos Morales was shot, clearly Morales still had 12 rounds left in him and was good enough to beat Pac. MAB beat Morales twice and in between those Pac destroyed him.

Even 4 years later MAB gave JMM a very good run for his money and some scored it for him.

MAB was prime. Or you gonna tell me his prime was when Junior Jones KHTFO?

 

I feel Floyd over Corrrales was the greater victory...Diego had never been defeated or knocked down! Corrales was a slight favorite!! Corrales had to come down from 155 per the press conference...RICKY HATTON HAD TO COME DOWN TO 147 FROM 180 WHEN HE FOUGHT FLOYD...THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING!!

 

MAB is a top 100ATG and top 50 for many. Corrales would find it hard to even break top 200. Pac a 4/1 underdog jumped up in weight to utterly destroy the then p4p #3. The 2 wins cannot be compared, MAB was a far greater win and is one of the biggest wins of this decade, if not the biggest win.

 

:good

 

I'll juss agree to disagree cuz this argument has been on ESB for a couple of years now! I still feel Floyd over Corrales was a bigger win!

 

I have been having the EXACT EXACT same conversations with Selfkill again and again over the past couple of weeks. He has constructed this web of convenience to discredit all of Pacquiao's performances - for each of his Mexican favourites there is a very convenient mitigating circumstance that comes up just nicely for their fight with Pacquiao. Barrera was on the best run of form of his career 2001-3 leading up to the Pacquiao fight, and this run continued after the Pacquiao fight with an excellent performance against Ayala and the most convincing win of the trilogy against Morales. He doesn't have a leg to stand on there.

Also, Morales was apparently shot by the time he fought Raheem. I think the web of convenience has worked out that as soon as the final bell clanged on the best performance of Morales's career, Pacquiao I, he immediately became shot. It had nothing to do with the fact Morales was not comfortable or effective fighting at lightweight nor the fact that Raheem was a bad stylistic match for Erik and a very slippery customer, it was that he was shot. So Morales gets full credit for beating Pacquiao, but Pacquiao gets **** all for beating Morales one year later, when Morales was a grey and aged 30 years old. The web of convenience states that the almighty jump up 5lbs then back down 5lbs in one calendar year at the decrepit age of 30, as well as coming off 2 wars against Barrera and Pacquiao (one razor-thin loss, one clear victory, in which he was not dropped once or even ever close to it) left Erik a walking corpse.

The difference between Morales in the 2nd fight with Pacquiao and the 3rd mean nothing in the web of convenience either. The fact that Morales fought like a lion in the 2nd fight and was able to last 10 blistering and violent rounds apparently does not prove he was the same man as the first fight, and that the difference was not in him but in a better conditioned, more highly motived, more determined, vengeful, more studied, more developed opponent. No, he was shot. And the physical and mental effects of finally meeting someone explosive enough to hurt him, of finally being legitimately hurt, dropped and stopped had no effect either, as he was already shot anyway.

It would appear likely that the physical and more importantly mental effects of the second fight led to the weaker version of Morales in the third fight, seeing as in the third Morales could not perform as he did in the first or second. But in the web of convenience, this is not so. Why? Because when the bell rang at the end of the 1st Pac fight, Erik was shot and any wins over him after that had no merit.

It's all pretty ****ing convenient this, isn't it amigo??

 

:good:happy:deal

I couldn't have put it better myself.

The excuses are simply getting out of hand, time after time whenever Pac faces a tough opponent they tell everyone he will loose, time after time Pac wins, and time after time they find a way to descredit that victory.

Pac beat MAB prime, end of! Past prime was when he beat MAB the 2nd time, same MAB who gave JMM a lot of trouble.

Pac looses to Morales, Pac camp complains and says it was gloves and cut, Pac gets his gloves, he doesnt get cut and makes plenty of improvements. Morales outboxed Pac first half of the fight until the turning point when Pac had 1 good round in the 6th and took out alot from Erik. Pac wins yet somehow Morales is shot 9 months later, BS.

Pac beats JMM in a narrow decision..robbery. BS. Pac put him down and got the judges eye.

ODLH was suppose to murder this guy. After the fight he wants to give Pac as small credit as possible without trying to look like a hater. The guy is slowly becoming a hater when he was quite decent before, probably because Pac fans are getting tired of it and telling him how it is.

Remember, this is the same guy who said the quotes below, and look at his tone now about the fight.

 

:happy

I often enjoy Selfkill's posts on other topics, I think he has great knowledge and is a good post/thread writer, but he is the dictionary definition of bias when it comes to Manny v the Mexicans. He lost the plot severely when he saw I had scored the fight to Pac. He said it was a schooling, a clinic etc for Marquez. Sorry, but anyone who doesn't see that fight as very VERY close (as was the 2nd 1, which I scored to JMM by 1 point) may as well be buried in a poncho and sombrero while still clutching maracas in their cold dead hands.


And I view Pac-Oscar as one of the wins of the decade. All this exaggeration about Oscar being dead at the weight - in his last fight he only weighed THREE POUNDS more, and he beat Forbes arguably more convincingly than Berto did in Forbes's next fight! Everyone thought Oscar would murder him, even the past-prime version (who took PBF to an SD), but Pac's speed, movement and elusiveness were too much for him, it was a huge upset. I don't understand why credit isn't given considering everyone's predictions. I hope and predict that if Oscar fights again at 154, he will prove that he is not a Roy Jones style walking corpse.