Re-watching Loma-Linares

Do you rank DeMarco's career above Linares'?

 

Best counter to that argument. Good job. It bothers me when people will look at a fighter's loss and not the quality of the fighter themself or their career. As if you're completely defined by those losses. It's boxing: you're bound to lose eventually. Upsets happen.

 

I think that’s just Lomachenko’s confidence getting the better of him.
Might be his downfall one day and it certainly saw him landing on his butt in that fight.

 

What good wins does Linares have??

 

Yeah it definitely was pure arrogance. Well, I say that but literally ANY other guy Lomachenko could reasonably have fought at that time wouldn't have been able to do that.

 

[QUOTE="Flamazide, post: 19378570, member: 114850] ANY other guy Lomachenko could reasonably have fought at that time wouldn't have been able to do that.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, and one day it will be more than a KD, when another guy will get underestimated like that.

 

I guess Freddie Norwood was great, or Chris John for that matter.

 

Two great fighters share the ring and you expect one-way traffic?

 

Linares is not without faults. As I mentioned his power doesn't get much respect. Also he's obviously not the most physically durable. However he has a high level skillset, or else his career would've tanked a long time ago and he would never have become a 3 division world champion.

 

I’m trying really hard right now to remember you post anything but ridicule of fighters you dislike, or, in this case, devaluation of their opponents.

Are you trying to be transparent as **** or you just can’t help it?
If that question is too hard to answer here’s another one - which fighter(s) do you like and actually consider good?
If that one’s too hard as well, here’s one more - what’s your opinion on kangaroos. I mean, did donkey **** a rabbit or....what happened, how come they exist?

 

Having just watched Marquez vs John, yes, I will say that Chris John was a master. Really impressive, I'll go out on a limb and say judging him just by that fight, better than Linares. As elite and fun as the Linares/Lomachenko match was, the John/Marquez match was even better.

Marquez vs John Scorecard

R1 10-9 John Slight edge to John in punches but these guys both look elite and evenly matched. Also, I’d give John the ring generalship points for leading more, while Marquez tried to counter. Good upper body and head movement from both.

R2 10-9 Marquez Marquez is landing a lot more now and with serious bad intentions. He’s walking forward flat footed committing to shots and throwing bombs. It almost looked like he was trying to get John out of there that round. He seriously wobbled John at the beginning and end; so John decided to give him some room.

R3 10-9 Marquez Marquez is fighting with an intensity I’ve rarely seen him exhibit outside of a Pacquiao fight. He’s being aggressive coming, forward, throwing hard. I loved the beginning of the round when they were both bouncing with energy, up on their toes, feinting, moving their arms, but John didn’t get much done this round. He was content to try to snipe with quick little jabs, which Marquez would counter over with powerful combinations.

R4 10-9 Marquez Marquez won all but one of their exchanges this round. This is a phenomenal fight. Both guys are operating at such a high level. Chris John has technique like Pongsaklek Wonjongkam or Marquez himself. Too bad Marquez is just a bit better and seems to be a bit stronger. If Marquez punches are .38s Johns are only .22s. But what style they both have! And good energy, good pacing.

R5 10-9 John Giving the close round to John for mercy’s sake. This fight is a treat. It’s like watching a guy fight in a mirror they are so close in technique and physical attributes.

R6 10-9 John What a fantastic round. John is out Marquezing Marquez, doing all the things Marquez did to Pacquiao. He’s staying out of reach timing him as he comes in, doing little steps back. Marquez lunges in with a big hook and Chris pops him lightly with a jab and hops out of range again.

R7 10-9 John Marquez knew he hurt John in that second and third round so now he’s trying to keep with it after John’s made some adjustments. Roughly even, perhaps a slight edge to John this round in terms of landed punches. Definite edge in ring generalship despite Marquez getting the edge in aggressiveness.

I can’t understand why John never entered the pound for pound lists. He’s got the talent of Wonjongkam or Calderon. He had a better record than Caballero. Hell, he had a better record than Ricardo Lopez with this win. 18 defenses, 48-0-3, undefeated until his final fight. He surely deserved p4p fame more than Dawson, Williams, Guerrero, or Broner. Ring screwed Valero too.

R8 10-9 Marquez Marquez trying to reset and be less aggressive. Ref warns Marquez for the second time for low blows, although neither looked severe or intentional. Marquez lands a hard combination upstairs. John lands a similar one with no power at all seconds later. Good punch to the ribs by Marquez. Good body head by Marquez. He’s got John missing. Time is called at the end of the round to cut a piece of tape from Marquez’ glove. No, to wrap more around it. These two are magnificent.

R9 10-9 Marquez Good shot to the body by John. Some of John’s footwork reminds me of Joey Maxim. This is good oldschool technical boxing. Oof, Marquez comes bulling in and slams a few to John’s head. John falls back into the corner hunched over then comes bouncing back. Marquez tries a flurry of body shots mostly blocked. That smooth economy of motion reminds me of Antonio Cervantes now. Marquez lands to the head, tries again but gets blocked by a shoulder. Good old fashioned form. Lot of lateral movement side to side from John, then he goes hard twice to the body of Marquez. Marquez comes after him, rushing, but ineffectual. He’s got a lot of mustard on these punches. Even the ones John blocks you can tell he’s feeling them.

R10 10-9 John Marquez landed a low punch below the belt line on John as John was leaping back. Technically a low blow but it barely touched him. The ref penalizes Marquez a point. Oh, come on. Marquez strays low again. Looked like he tried to stop it before contact so it didn’t have anything on it but damnit man. You just lost a point seconds ago. What dumbass is letting the clock run? Ooh, Marquez clipped him on the jaw. John gives him back a little tit for tat. Would have been a slight Marquez round if it weren’t for that lowblow. Two point swing the other way now.

R11 10-7 John I don’t believe it. Marquez just lost two more points for hitting John in the middle of his belt. No wonder he lost this fight. Barely low. Above the cup. Although in the previous round he’d hit John on the thigh. If I were Nacho I’d tell him to just punch upstairs. Now, John complains that Marquez is hitting him in the back of the head, after he just did that to Marquez. He doesn’t want Marquez to be able to hit him anywhere. Smart, but sneaky. Marquez is frustrated, slinging haymakers. John pops him on either side of his face. Marquez bull rushes gets nowhere. They reset.

R12 10-9 John They shake hands in the center of the ring. John cuffs Marquez on the side of the head with a left hook. Punch picked off. Punch. One got through. Marquez drilled him with a straight right down the center. Marquez knows it’s now or never and he’s letting it all hang out. John finds the middle of the ring slippery, circles out. Marquez charges and John puts him in a headlock. John lands a left to the head. Marquez rushes and misses as John moves back out of range. John jabs, misses. Both changing levels. John gets the better of an exchange. John backing up Marquez missing.

115-111 for Chris John