Real Story on Greb-Flowers I & II/

Not looking forward to any endless rigamarole this post may create, but later in his career, when he was middleweight champion, Tiger referred to fighting Greb in Fremont wearing handcuffs.
That was certainly the lot of the black fighter in dem days.
Adding some levity, Harry was nowhere near his best form that night.

 

Oh bull****. You know better than that if youve actually done your homework. If Tiger were forced to wear handcuffs why did he try to sneak into the commission offices and weigh in under the MW limit in order to try to win the title? That doesnt sound like a guy who is going into the fight not trying. Why was Walk Miller present at Greb's sparring sessions almost daily looking for gaps in his armor in order to devise a way to beat him? The only handcuffs Flowers wore was the fact that the match was contracted over the weight so he couldnt claim the title if he won. This however was not uncommon and indeed was expected. Even the local papers stated that being a champion Greb deserved the right to reserve his title for larger venues where he could make money off of putting it on the line. They were happy enough just to see a champion fight. Other than that the fight was considered hard fought and on its merits. In fact it was Flowers good performance in this fight that elevated him from the chitlin circuit to being a legitimate contender and comparing all of the reports from their three fights one gets the impression that Flowers fought a much better fight in their first fight than in their latter two the difference being that Greb was not nearly as faded as he would be nearly two years later.

 

Right, I haven't done my homework.
Harry was quoted in the Atlanta papers saying he thought the match was a good draw and that he favored Flowers over Dempsey in a ten rounder. What's the spin on that?

 

Thats funny because that quote came from the Pittsburgh Gazette Times where Harry was originally interviewed... you know, his hometown, only Harry stated that he thought he won it. Now isnt it funny how Flowers' hometown paper would spin that story isnt it? Especially seeing as how no Atlanta paper had a correspondent anywhere near the Flowers Greb fight or Greb (for the interview).

Here is Greb's actual quote from that interview in regards to who he thought won: "While I believe I am safe in saying I beat him I want to say that he will give any first class man a tough session and will lick a lot of the best ones. That goes especially for Loughran, Stribling, Berlenbach, and Slattery. Furthermore I think he is one man who can give Jack Dempsey a merry time for six or eight rounds." -Pittsburgh Gazette-Times August 24, 1924.

Now that quote was picked up by the wires and widely reprinted (and misquoted) but show me where it says there that Greb thought the fight was a draw. But I guess its easier for you to believe that Atlanta sent a reporter up to Pittsburgh to interview Harry about a relatively inconsequential fight against a black fighter (after all Atlanta wasnt exactly the friendliest place to black fighters and indeed they barely covered Flowers title win) who wasnt very well known at the time and Harry just happened to claim he eaked out a draw, which would be completely atypical of him even if he had lost.

Yeah, youve obviously done your homework... If you think Flowers had the cuffs on in that fight wanna explain why he was trying to win the title if he was also trying not to win the fight? I just want to get this straight since you have such a great grasp on the story. Walk Miller and Tiger Flowers do everything in their power to make sure Flowers is in perfect physical condition for his fight with Greb. They do everything they can to prepare a strategy for Greb. They then try to sneak into the office of the commission and get the commission members to let Flowers weigh in under the middlweight limit, unbeknownst to Greb, so that Flowers can try to knock Greb out and win the title. Flowers is not allowed a second weigh in as he has a signed contract with Greb to be above 160. He then fights an very fast and entertaining fight with Greb in which some thought he won, most thought he lost, and everyone thought was on the level. So at what point between the weigh in and the fight (a few hours) did Flowers suddenly decide that he wasnt going to try to upset the champion and instead would just half ass it (which, if you know anything about Flowers and Miller, wasnt in their nature)? Just curious.



And you wanna go around on these forums claiming you gave me all my information on Greb :-( .

 

How many times did you call me steve?
Tell the truth!

 

What all did you give me that ended up in my book?
Tell the truth!

And while you are at it stop ducking the post above.

Here, Ill answer for the umpteenth time what I got from you: Greb's service record which in no way ended up in my book, for which I gave you credit in my book, and which only saved me nothing more than a 2 hr trip to St Louis where its housed as I already knew where it was and how to get it and which you well know. NOTHING MORE. If you think that entitles you to some small credit then be happy your name made it into the acknowledgements. If you think that somehow makes you my mentor or everything I did afterwards an extension of whatever it is you think youve accomplished you are sorely mistaken.

 

And you wanna go around on these forums claiming you gave me all my information on Greb
I got a thousand bucks to sucker bet you I never said this.
Please say you will!

Psssst He won't

 

We both know you went back and edited your post after I called you out on it but dont worry when I get home I will post our email back and forth on it so people can see. I'll take that thousand bucks in $20s.

Im still not seeing any response to the post above in question.

 

What does Buck Glenn have to do with you pretending to be my mentor or what you said about Flowers wearing the cuffs and Greb saying he thought the fight was a draw?

 

Im working on the articles..wait.

Buck Glenn was someone I shared freely with you in one of your many calls to me.
I distinctly recall this conversation. You knew about a close friend but did not know his name. Admit it Steve and let this crack the door open a bit.

 

Where is Buck Glenn mentioned in my book (read it and you might actually learn something)? You didnt give me anything on Glenn. Buck Glenn was mentioned extensively in Harry Keck and Red Mason's series of articles on the life of Harry Greb published in the Gazette Times starting a few weeks after Greb's death. He was one of many friends that played a role in Greb's early life and career but none of that information came from you.

In fact the conversation you are referring to had nothing to do with Glenn at all. It was in reference to Nathan Liff, who I already was aware of. You have always been high on Liff but after determining that a lot of what he said in regards to Greb was bull**** I elected not to use any of the information available on him as I couldnt be sure what was fact and what was fiction. Liff wasnt the most reliable of sources but you go ahead and build your castle on that quicksand foundation.

Nice try at redirecting the conversation Ed but back to the original two points about you being mentor or giving me all the information I had in my book and Greb claiming he only drew with Flowers in Fremont and that Flowers wore the cuffs...

When should I look in the mail for my $1000. Let me guess, about the same time your documentary will be released. Speaking of which, why not release your trailer on youtube? It took you 15 years to complete just that trailer, Id think you would be proud of it. No? You mean youve changed your mind and now dont think a series of shots of nothing more than people mentioning Harry Greb's name in old movies that nobody remembers isnt the type of thing that would get people excited about your film? Yeah, youre probably right, we both know your one time biggest supporter was sure disappointed in it. If he thought it was **** what would the casual observer think? Yet you want to claim Im your student. LOL.

 

Gents, get the newly released book on flowers , via amazon now!!

 

Klompton says it's shyte!

 

It is. Its horrible. So much bull**** in that book its beyond belief. I cant believe a publishing company would allow its release with so much outright fabrication. The author substitutes actual research with imagination. When he doesnt have the answers about someones life (Which are there to be found) he simply makes something up.

And for the record I still havent received my $1,000 from Ed.