Reality Check Time! Oleksandr Usyk is Still The P4P Number One Fighter On The Planet. This Is Why...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Sep 15, 2025 at 10:37 PM.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Alright, after 2 days straight of ridiculous amounts of praise lavishing, embellishing and guffawing over Bud Crawford's razor close win over the tired haggard looking, going through the motions, disinterested, barely walking cadaver of 20 year pro Canelo Alvarez. It's forced me to come out of article writing semi-retirement to drop some crater making MOAB sized truth bombs on the asses of you delusional mofos. In regards to who the true P4P number 1 fighter in this sport really is. Who without even a shadow of a doubt, is still the one and only Mr. Oleksandr Oleksandrovych Usyk.

    Duly noted, I was wrong in my prediction that Canelo would beat Crawford, fine, I can live with that. One doesn't get every prediction correct. I was basing that off the fact that Crawford looked a bit sluggish against Madrimov in his 154 debut, and that he seemed to lack power. So I had serious concerns as to whether the extra weight would slow him down even more, and diminish his already seemingly waning power. Also, while it seemed evident that Canelo has been shot since Bivol beat the fight out of him, I wasn't entirely sure if he was just phoning in his increasingly lackluster performances because he couldn't be arsed to train properly against his recent string of mediocre opponents, or if it was due to what seems to be the reality, that he was in fact shot. So that was a gamble and miscalculation that didn't pay off, in retrospect, I feel like a ****ing idiot. But even I stated that Crawford would probably box his ears off until the power shots and intense pace finally got to him. Well... clearly Canelo is nothing without his Subatomic Light Heavyweight leveling Clen-bombs, which has been more than obvious due to his lack of KO's recently. We also saw the return of the dreaded Gasnelo, he clearly lacks the stamina he brought to the table in the second match against Golovkin, Saunders, Smith, Kovalev and even Plant. Gee, I wonder why?:rolleyes:

    Yes, kudos go to Crawford for having the self belief to jump up two weight divisions to fight the divisional kingpin, and topple him. That took balls of steel, but... he also knew that Canelo for all of his defensive improvements, as we all saw in the Scull match, Canelo is still a bit flat footed, can't cut the ring off worth a damn and is there for the taking for any slicksters with excellent timing and defense, sharp counters and decent power to keep him apprehensive. He also knew he was catching Canelo at the right time. So how much credit does he really deserve? It's not like he was at some kind of size disadvantage here. He was the bigger man in the ring of all ****ing things. Which highlights just what a shamefully egregious weight bully Crawford's been for the vast majority of his career. Canelo is a natural Light Middleweight who's a bit chunky, who genuinely lucked out that the division he moved up to was in the most dire of dire straits. Which is highlighted by the fact that almost all of his opponents were either blown up Middleweights or blown up Light Middleweights. Munguia and Charlo both Light Middles, while GGG, Ryder, Saunders, and Berlanga all started out as Middleweights, the first three spending the majority of their careers campaigning there. Smith was a legit Super Middle, who was so tight at the weight he resembled a parched skeleton from the Pirates of the Caribbean more than an actual fighter. That's Smith fault, he didn't have to take the match, still it lessens the impactfulness of that win. You have Scull who was almost brutally KTFO by a jab from Shishkin, and Plant, who just got his ass handed to him by Resendiz, who's a natural Light Middleweight, and was dropped twice by that bum McCumby. Plant is garbage and always has been. I love Kovalev, but he was a month removed from taking a horrendous beating at the hands of Yarde that he barely escaped from, didn't have a full camp, and had a rehydration limit. The reason why he wasn't throwing with full power is because he was terrified he was going to gas out. Then add in Kovalev's fondness for the bottle, it was a perfectly staged mockery of the sport and debacle by Ginger Balls. So the last several years of Canelo's career was largely based on smoke and mirrors, trying to convince the casuals he was accomplishing far more than what he actually was.

    So the question is, why should Bud Crawford be awarded the spot at the top of the P4P rankings for doing something that Mayweather and Bivol have already done officially, Lara, Trout and Golovkin times two, have done unofficially? This by all rights should be Canelo's 7th loss. This is a 35 year old version of a man who's been fighting since he was 15 years old, who hasn't looked good since 2020, that's 5 years. That's a pretty goddamn long decline if you ask me. The answer is, no... he doesn't deserve the spot for doing something less impressively than 6 other men that have come before. Regardless of how you scored the fight, Crawford was super cautious, most of the rounds up until the 11th were very tight affairs, that could've gone either way, and the ones that Crawford won, were anything but a domination. He was winning them by landing a few more jabs and frustrating Canelo. He wasn't winning by walking his ass down and using his head like a speedbag like Bivol, or keeping him hightailing it in reverse for 12 rounds like GGG, or standing toe to toe and slugging it out with him like GGG in the rematch. It wasn't a masterclass, it wasn't a schooling, Crawford fought a more skittish match than Mayweather for **** sake. People are overstating what an accomplishment it was, because they're amazed that Crawford pulled it off, because many of them thought 168 was a bridge too far as well. Nothing more. But the reality is, jumping from 154 to 168 is only 14 pounds, and this is a guy that regularly rehydrated up that high. When you repeatedly move up division after division and are consistently bigger than all of the guys in the division you're moving up to, what the **** does that say? Manny Pacquiao was never the bigger man, he was always a tiny little pune beating up much larger monsters. While Bud shows up looking like the jacked intimidating monster, and beats up little punes.:lol:

    So **** all of this noise, time to bring some common sense and rationality to the discussion. Time to put their recent accomplishments into their proper perspective. To be both the voice of reason and the restorer of clarity. This is why both Usyk and Inoue, are solidly in front of Crawford in the P4P rankings and in no way, shape or form does Bud get to skip the line because of his recent exploit. Wow he moved up 14 pounds and beat up a stiff legged ginger codger nearing retirement! Usyk moved up and fought AJ who outweighed him by 20 pounds, and then fought Fury twice, who outweighed him by FIFTY POUNDS. Now that's ****ng impressive! Still, Usyk is a solid number 1, and Inoue is number 2, and I'll lay out why.
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Now, let's look at the actual resumes and put their most important opponents into the proper perspective. I'll break their wins into A level, B level, C level and D level. The level ratings reflect where they were the time they fought them, not all time.

    Crawford

    B Level
    Canelo Alvarez - For the reasons I laid out earlier, 6 losses, and one of the most overrated and overhyped fighters of the modern era. Still, Canelo performed far more impressively against Bud than he did against Bivol and GGG. Might very well have a foot out of the door, looking towards retirement. B- arguably C+ at this point.

    Errol Spence Jr. - This was a compromised, post accident, drained version. Still think Bud beats any version though. Was nearly stopped by Ugas, badly hurt by Danny. Went life and death with Porter, was nothing but a plodding slower and larger Manny Pacquiao. He hasn't fought since the loss, that should put into perspective just how damaged The Truff really was. B- maybe even C the version he fought.

    Israil Madrimov - Lost subsequently to Vergil Ortiz Jr. who was far more dominant than Bud and on the front foot. While skilled as hell, he gave Bud a ton of issues, arguably handing him his first loss. But at the end of the day, his resume leaves a lot to be desired, his best win was over Magomed Kurbanov, who should have at least 4-5 losses on his ledger.

    Shawn Porter - Had seen better days, coming off of struggling to beat Ugas, probably should've beaten Spence. Bud's best win, and it was easily his toughest test.


    Egidijus Kavaliauskas - One of Bud's better wins, only lost twice, once to Bud the other to Vergil Ortiz. Probably one of the more technically sound operators he's faced. Although he did struggle mightily with Ray Robinson and Juan Carlos Abreu. He also was being outboxed by Zewski and down on two cards. Which takes some of the luster off of this win.

    Viktor Postol - Sure Postol was coming off of two great showings, against a Matthysse with one foot out of the door and the Robert Guerrero beatdown victim, Selcuk Aydin. The man has always been a counter puncher not accustomed to taking the lead, and he's not one to go outside of his comfort zone all that often. Stylistically this match was the definition of a mismatch. Since then, he got a gift against Najmitdinov, lost to Taylor, got robbed against Ramirez, and then became a big name punching bag for the likes of Elvis Rodriguez and Gary Antuanne Russell. Probably one of Bud's best wins.

    Yuriorkis Gamboa - Went life and death with Michael Farenas and Orlando Salido at Featherweight. Always had an air of fragility. Bud was outgrowing the division, Gamboa was basically brand new to it. Always a mismatch. Still, a great match. Lost a bit of its luster with him going on to be humiliated and stopped by high level journeyman Robinson Castellanos, needing a gift to beat Alexis Reyes and Jason Sosa. Since then, professional journeyman. This should probably be C level.


    C Level
    David Avanesyan - Lost to Peterson, barely scraped by ancient Mosley, brutalized and stopped by The Mean Machine. Best wins, KOing glass jawed Lejarraga and popping the cherry of featherfisted hypejob Josh Kelly.

    Jose Benavidez - Coming back from being shot in the leg, had greatly inhibited movement compared to the version before. His best win was over Jorge Paez Jr, which says it all. You notice I didn't say Herrera? That's because it's universally recognized as one of the worst robberies of 2014. He's the definition of an underachiever. At his best fights in spurts and steals rounds after lying on topes and allowing himself to be outworked for long stretches.

    Thomas Dulorme - A natural WW, draining himself down to 140, got manhandled and stopped by Luis Carlos Abregu, best result beforehand, barely edging Karim Mayfield and Hank Lundy. One of the glassiest chins in the sport when in against punchers. At best, a high level journeyman. Best result post fight, a draw against Jessie Vargas.

    Jeff Horn - Even though I picked Horn to beat Pac and I think he did, he barely pulled it off and was seconds away from being TKO'd. But let's be honest, that fight took a hell of a lot out of him. He barely made weight for his next fight and went life and death with Gary Corcoran. Was drained beyond belief for the Crawford match, and immediately went up to 154, where he basically became a punching bag.

    Felix Diaz - His claims to fame heading into the match against Crawford is that he got stiffed against Lamont Peterson in a 7-5 type fight and barely eked out a wins over Granados and Vasquez. Immediately following the loss to Bud he got absolutely ragdolled by and lost to Chia Santana. He fought once more and retired.

    D Level
    Kell Brook - The Shell of Kell, boiled down to make WW for the first time in 3 1/2 years. WIn not worth much. The version Bud faced was D Level. Same goes for.....

    Amir Khan - Been through the ringer so many times it wasn't funny. The fact that most didn't want the fight even made because they feared for Amir's health, is all you need to know.

    Julius Indongo - Definition of a one hit wonder, and since Troyanovsky kind of sucks, how big of a hit was it? Great, he outboxed Burns, who hasn't? Since Bud mangled him, he's settled into the role of being a pisspoor easily TKO'd pathetic journeyman of the lowest order. His fall from grace has been next level horrific.

    John Molina Jr. - I love John's moxie, but the man couldn't box his way out of a paper bag. Sure he's tough as nails, gave Matthysse hell, outboxed Provodnikov and Figueroa, but got robbed, but the man got schooled by Mickey Bey for 9 rounds and was schooled by Soto and Broner.

    Dierry Jean - Never was, best showing, being dominated by Lamont Peterson. Stay busy fight.

    Ray Beltran - Roider, and at best, a tough high level journeyman and overachiever. Lost to almost everyone he was supposed to lose to and only won against unproven KO artists who like to brawl.

    Ricky Burns - Tough as shoe leather and hard as nails, but I mean, he was coming off of a broken jaw and gift draw over Beltran and went on to be dominated by Zlaticanin, Figueroa, Indongo, Relikh and Crolla. Let's put it this way. He's not a master boxer.

    Inoue
    Since I'm fairly well versed in the lower divisions, I can say unequivocally, he has one of the best resumes in the sport. To date Inoue is the first and in some cases only man to stop the vast majority of his opponents.


    B Level
    Nonito Donaire - Stopped in the division he was known for, so it counts for far more. Rigo couldn't do that. Nonito was fresh off great wins over Burnett, Young, Gaballo and Oubaali. This was a revitalized inspired late career surge version of Donaire. More B+.

    Murodjon Akhmadaliev - He lost to Tapales like I predicted he would, because Tapales is a fellow southpaw KO artist and threw him off his rhythm for the first half of the fight, he came roaring back and almost stopped Tapales late. Is a very skilled and quality opponent with excellent wins over Danny Roman, Ronny Rios, Ryosuke Iwasa, Jose Velasquez, Ricardo Espinoza Franco and Kevin Gonzalez.


    Stephon Fulton - While a bit overrated, Still, he had wins over Brandon Figueroa (controversial), Angelo Leo, Arnold Khegai, Paulus Ambunda, Joshua Greer Jr, Isaac Avelar. More like B-.

    Jason Moloney - Went on to rack up decent wins over Palicte, Astrolabio, Kaikanha and Greer. Had great showing against Rodriguez. Universally known as the good Moloney brother.

    Emmanuel Rodriguez - Coming off of wins over Butler and Moloney, went on to take Gary Antuanne Russell's 0. Got big time robbed against Gaballo. A very skilled incredibly smooth operator.

    Omar Narvaez - Stopped him, something Donaire, Seda, Orucuta, Potapov, Carmona, Zaleta, Liriano and Tete couldn't accomplish. Because Omar beat all but 2 of them. Long time divisional stalwart, who knows how to survive and gives his opponent's fits. Inoue never even allowed him to establish a rhythm.

    Luis Nery - Somewhere between A and B, sure he lost to Figueroa, but aside from that, he's demolished most of his opponents in hairraising fashion, ending the career of the great Shinsuke Yamanaka, and racking up damned impressive wins over Villanueva, Arroyo, Payano, Castro, Hovhannisyan, Saludar and Alameda.

    Ramon Cardenas - Much has been made of the fact that he's literally a cab driver, but little is made of the fact that he's a bad mother****er. He's been on a rampage for the last few years, headlining a series of Probox cards, taking the 0's of or stopping plenty of quality operators. Like Rafael Pedroza, Michell Banquez, Israel Rodriguez Picazo, Bryan Acosta and Jesus Ramirez Rubio. Solid B -


    C Level
    TJ Doheny - Another guy middling between B and C, he's a scrappy warrior, who got shafted a few times. With solid wins over Iwasa, Takahashi, Juarez, Nakajima and Llamido. His losses to Danny Roman, Goodman and Conlan were razor close and had been on quite the run in the lead up to the Inoue fight. Inoue stopped him for the first time in his career. C+

    Marlon Tapales - Arguably should be at B level based on is win over Akhmadaliev where he performed out of his skin, but before that his lack of consistently and multiple KO losses drops hm down a notch. Ryosuke Iwasa stopped him, and his best win was over Shohei Omori who he stopped twice. Still, he's a tough out for anyone. C+
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Juan Carlos Payano - Stopped him in 1, something it took Nery 9 rounds to do later. Payano robbed of D. Roman win. Had wins over Rau'shee Warren and Anselmo Moreno. Brings a rugged brawling style, which Inoue never got to experience. Because he KO'd him with the first shot that landed. C+

    Ryoichi Taguchi - Tough as nails, has wins over Milan Melindo, Luis De La Rosa, Albert Rossel, Landaeta, Barrera, and got robbed against Budler and Canizales. At the time, one of the top talents below Flyweight. One of the few to go the distance with The Monster.

    Jamie McDonnell - Stopped him, something Kameda, Ceja, Solis, Medina, Jamoye or Hall couldn't accomplish. All damned impressive wins for McDonnell. The good McDonnell twin.

    Kohei Kono - Long time rugged journeyman, Inoue was the first to KO him, something Concepcion, Kameda, Tso, Solis and even Moloney legitimately couldn't accomplish. Best win, retiring Koki Kameda in the US.

    Paul Butler - A vastly improved slicker version he reduced to running and surviving, coming off of impressive win over Jonas Sultan. Inoue is the only man to KO him other than Tete.


    D Level
    Ye Joon Kim - Throwaway stay busy fight, not a bad operator, but no notable wins on his record, and had never been stopped.

    Ricardo Rodriguez - Stopped him, something Carmona, Quijano, Lozano, C. Narvaez and E. Rodriguez couldn't accomplish.

    Yoan Bloyeux - So so journeyman, stopped only once in 46 matches, a feat even Carl Frampton couldn't accomplish.

    Antonio Nieves - In reality, the first to beat him, he was robbed against Potapov. A. Santiago stopped him since.

    Aran Dipaen - Mostly a stay busy fight, but he's a tough as nails journeyman, with great survival instincts.

    Michael Dasmarinas - Stopped him for the first time in 10 years, coming off of career best win and performance against Guerfi.

    Adrian Hernandez, Crison Omayao, Samartlek Kokietgym, Petchbarngborn Kokietgym and David Carmona, who are all top tier fringe contenders and journeymen, who only lose to the best in the division.



    Usyk

    A Level
    Anthony Joshua x2 - Yes I've bashed AJ quite a bit, but the man has one of the most impressive HW resumes in the last decades, with wins over Klitschko, Povetkin, Whyte, Ruiz, Parker, Pulev, Wallin, Takam, Breazeale, Molina, Franklin, Helenius, Ngannou and Martin. Yes, he had a bit of a glass chin, but even then he took a vicious beating both times before finally succumbing. He's a murderous puncher, a tremendous jab and is pretty hard to outbox. A -

    Tyson Fury x2 - Same with Fury, I've bashed him relentlessly, still... the man is a behemoth, and a very skilled one at that, who had 5 or 6 inches in height and outweighed Usyk by 50 ****ing pounds. Next to no one thought he could pull off such a Herculean task, but he pulled it off twice. His resume is impressive, with wins over Klitschko, three over Chisora which keep getting better with age, rightfully 3 over Wilder, and effectively destroyed him as a fighter, Whyte, Wallin, Schwarz, Ngannou, Cunningham and Hammer. A -

    Mairis Briedis - Scored brutal one punch KO win over Charr, brutalized Durodola, destroyed Glowacki. Dominant wins over Huck, Dorticos, Mann, and close but clear win over Perez. Skill wise, one of the top fighters in the sport. Sure, he probably should've lost to Gevor, but so should Wlodarczyk. Gevor is also one of the most underrated boxers in the sport. Yes he lost to Opetaia. But even that was debatable, it should've been a draw, and let's be honest, he won the war, literally mutilating and mangling the face of the young Aussie, who hasn't fought since. Jai looked like the Elephant Man after Mairis got through with him, then he beat him up in the second half of their rematch as well. A -

    B Level
    Daniel Dubois x2 - Yes, he had a loss to Joyce gong into the first fight, but coming out of it, he showed his mettle and what he was made out of, by running through not just Miller and Hrgovic but Anthony Joshua himself. His stopped Lerena the first and only time in his career, in spite of his difficulties in round 1, and obliterated Gorman, Tettah, Cusumano, Fujimoto, Dinu and Trevor Bryan. Yes, he's flawed, but he's a dangerous and dirty fighter, which Usyk made look like a clown.

    Murat Gassiev - Murderous puncher, destroyed and retired Jordan Shimmell, dominated Denis Lebedev, brutally KO'd Diablo Włodarczyk and Yunier Dorticos. Moved up to Heavyweight, has barely broken a sweat, KO'd all four opponents he's faced fairly early and easily. It's a pity that injuries and being robbed of his confidence by Usyk has affected him so badly.

    Michael Hunter - Before they fought, he only had wins over Isaiah Thomas and Jerry Forrest, after they fought, he went on to takes the 0's of Sergey Kuzmin, Martin Bakole, stop Kiladze, Ustinov and Maldonado. Then get robbed with a draw against Povetkin a match he clearly won. Sadly has stagnated since then and struggled with Forrest in a rematch. But the version Usyk fought was a beast.

    Tony Bellew - Sure, Bellew has been the butt of many jokes, because he's an ass.... but aside from his losses to Stevenson and Cleverly, both of which are forgivable. As a Cruiserweight, he was an absolute beast. Picking up wins over Makabu, when it mattered, Masternak when it mattered. Avenged his loss to Clev, beat Brudov, BJ Flores, and David Haye times 2. This was a revitalized and reborn Bellew. Usyk ended his career.

    Dereck Chisora - Sure the man has a ton of losses, but he was also coming into that match with a head of steam, with wins over. Price, Szpilka, Gashi, Takam and let's be honest, he was robbed against Whyte and robbed against Parker. He also lost to both of them as well. Then he avenged his loss to Pulev. If you don't belong at HW, Del Boy will find you out. SInce then picked up wins over Joyce, Wallin and Pulev.

    Krzysztof Glowacki - At the time, he was coming off of two impressive victories, TKOing Huck and ending his long time reign as Cruiserweight kingpin and beating USS Cunningham, who'd been on a hell of a roll up until then. Akso has a notable stoppage victory over the very underrated Matty Askin. Went on to lose a few times, but also rack up a few more decent wins, the one over Maxim Vlasov the most notable. Win over Glowacku hasn't aged gracefully, but Usyk and Briedis ruined him as a fighter.

    Marco Huck - Having him at B Level is probably controversial. But even after losing to Glowacki and Briedis, he was also coming off of two fairly impressive wins over Dmytro Kucher and Ola Afolabi. Long time Cruiserweight kingpin, notoriously robbed of being the man to rightfully take the 0 of Povetkin, beat a who's who over the previous decade, although his win over Lebedev and Arslan were a bit shady. Still a top fighter who isn't close to easy to beat. Moved up to HW, won both matches.

    Thabiso Mchunu - Sure, he'd been KO'd by Makabu, but he'd also UD'd Durodola and Eddie Chambers, KO'd Bolotniks, and went on a hell of a run, dominating Thomas Oosthuizen, Denis Lebedev who retired afterward, and taking the 0 of top amateur Evgeny Tishchenko. Most recently robbed blind in his split decision loss in his rematch against Makabu. This win is aging like a fine wine.

    Joe Joyce - Sure it was a semi-pro, but also right before he turned pro. It was also a dominant one sided showing against the future Silver Medalist and absolute beast at Heavyweight after turning pro.


    So yeah.... based on name recognition, in the flashy divisions, Bud's resume seems impressive. But take a closer look, and that illusion quickly begins to fall apart. Especially when you take into consideration their accomplishments before and after Bud's victory over them. But Inoue's resume, is filled with several prime opponents sitting atop their divisions, not also rans or has beens and ironically, the only has been he faced Donaire, was in the middle of one of the more incredible late career resurgences we've seen in recent times. One that was a hell of a lot more with it and sharp than say... Errol Spence Jr. or even Gasnelo. Regardless, the vast majority of his opponents haven't been compromised in some way and most he's been the smaller man moving up and dominating. As far as Usyk goes, at the time of his run at Cruiserweight, that division was easily one of the most impressive in the sport. With a murderer's row of undefeated beasts, fresh off of dispatching other undefeated beasts in the WBSS. To win that tournament, like Usyk and Inoue did theirs, were truly notable accomplishments, and ATG material, much like Andre Ward winning the Super Six a few years earlier. Accomplishments that should not be overlooked with callous indifference by most casual fans. Sure, Bud passes the eye test and is one of the current greats, but at best, his three standout wins, are over guys with both feet out of the door and not one of his wins have aged gracefully. Neither will this one. Just look at what's been happening to Canelos recent opponents!:lol: Inoue and Usyk on the other hand, most of theirs have, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Because they've faced most of their opponents in their primes and with zero asterisks.
     
  4. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Now.... we should start discussing why Bivol ranks higher P4P than Bud as well.:deal:

    The Man has wins over...

    Artur Beterbiev
    Canelo Alvarez
    Gilberto Ramirez
    Joe Smith Jr.
    Jean Pascal
    Umar Salamov
    Sullivan Barrera
    Craig Richards
    Malik Zinad
    Lyndon Arthur
    Isaac Chilemba
    Cedric Agnew
    Samuel Clarkson

    ....which is pretty ****ing impressive.
     
  5. TNSNO1878

    TNSNO1878 Active Member Full Member

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    Malik Zibad, Cedric Agnew, Samuel Clarkson and Spider Richards, the Mount Rushmore of 175.
     
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  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Who said that? I certainly didn't, however... they are better than the likes of Jean, Beltran, Klimov, Molina, Indongo, Felix Diaz and Sanabria.
     
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  7. TEAM_LOMA

    TEAM_LOMA This is Boxing Full Member

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    For me its
    Usyk
    Craw
    Bivol
    Inoue
    Bam
     
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  8. Chitown

    Chitown Active Member Full Member

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    Lol this. All of the names after Barrera are irrelevant fluff.

    Anthony Joshua being an A level win while Canelo and Spence are B level doesn't make any sense. AJ was coming off being stopped by Ruiz, potshotting to an underwhelming decision then needed 10 rounds to put away a shot Pulev who lost to ancient Chisora 2 fights later.

    As for Bivol while he fought a better version than Bud did he is also the much bigger man. Beating 175lbs Canelo who was tied on the cards with a shot Kovalev before the KO isn't the same as beating 168lbs Canelo his best weight. And as someone who isn't a real MW himself in Bud.
     
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  9. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Yeah, kind of like Bud's resume outside of Canelo, Spence, Porter and Madrimov.

    It makes perfect sense, AJ had one loss, avenged the loss and stopped Pulev in 9, not 10 rounds. That's every bit as impressive as looking like ass against and nearly getting KO'd by Yordenis Ugas, who went on to be battered into retirement by a Tank Davis victim. Or looking like a cockeyed hobbling buzzard ineptly chasing William Scull around the ring hitting air all night. Wins over Ruiz and Pulev put those wins to ****ing shame.

    Are we forgetting the wins over Beterbiev an current Cruiserweight champion Gilberto Ramirez who beat the guy who beat Okolie senseless?
     
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  10. HellSpawn86

    HellSpawn86 "My heart goes out to you!" Full Member

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    I consider Crawford defeating Canelo a solid win and a cap in Crawfords hat after an overall good career. That said yeah, Canelo was past it, and Crawford was a similar sized man coming in fresher. The lower divisions have been smoke and mirrors for all the lighter weight boxers for a while now. Neither guy defeated a long reigning lineal champion like a Mayweather or Pacquiao to earn their spots. They have been feasting off the rest of the B caliber opponents.

    Usyk defeated AJ, Fury and Dubois who were all active killers in the division. I think that holds more weight in my opinion. And what can be said about AJ and Fury was that they did defeat Klitschko to become the top dogs in the division. So there is a bit of a lineal trend that separated them as great wins for Usyk.
     
  11. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Whilst my prediction was that the 'safe' bet on the fight was Canelo points (with his judging history after all!), that was contingent on a Canelo that I figured would have had more fire in his belly than his recent fights and would go out on his shield / walk through the fire to not have his legacy tarnished by losing to a guy coming up from 154.

    Also, Bud did fight the correct game plan - in the pocket when he could be, and plenty of lateral movement, but keep Canelo resetting as often as he could with sharp counters and - a la Bivol - put in combos as often as possible to punctuate exchanges.

    However, once all is said and done, I still look at Crawford and see his greatest achievements as ever being able to make 135 and 140 without being compromised - that 74 inch reach is a weapon anywhere south of 168 (Bivol has 72 inch reach ffs!), and he has never IIRC fought anyone with a greater reach.

    But trying to be objective I think Crawford still has to get huge credit for daring to be great* even if there is a bit of a highly-calculated angle to it.

    FWIW I had the score 116-112, 115-113 - not rewatched it yet, and I think Canelo's demeanour and body language did him no favours in the championship rounds.

    I still have Usyk top in P4P. Whilst it would be an intriguing matchup that we would never see, Usyk vs Crawford I think Usyk has more in his locker than Crawford does over the course of the 12, and I think we have seen more evidence of that on resume.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2025 at 2:13 AM
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  12. bremen

    bremen Boxing Addict Full Member

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    P4P is load of bs. Canelo win over faded Kovalev elevated him to P4P #1. Now, the same pundits are going to make Crawford P4P #1 for beating faded Canelo. This is despite the fact that Canelo has never won another fight at 175 and Crawford will never win another fight at 168.
     
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  13. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Pulev was ancient and hadn't scored a noteworthy win in years he also was generally not viewed as a top 10 heavyweight at that stage. That's absolutely not an impressive win given the circumstances.

    Ruiz claim to fame is beating Joshua. He didn't do much else
     
  14. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Its nice that Usyk's delusional fanboys think he's better than Bud. Usyk himself will tell you that Bud's the best fighter in the world.
     
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  15. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Its nice that Bud's delusional fanboys think he's better than Usyk. Bud himself will tell you that Usyk's the best fighter in the world.

    I've yet to hear any Crawford fanboy, articulate why he's P4P number 1, all I get is trust me bro!
     
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