Record of fighters against Top10 opposition....

Floyd can't fight and beat himself, short of doing that, the Cotto fight is the only "legacy enhancing" fight if Cotto gets past Margarito.

Floyd has the WBC belt from 130-154lbs, yet you talk about him like he's some chump who has only ever fought for money.

He's at a stage where he can fight for money, he's earnt it. Show him some respect just like I show the Pea respect, their careers are similar in my view, once you adjust the standing of Pea for the losses he had.

 

But in the same way that people dispute the quality of the Top 10 in cases of PBF, Calzaghe and such, if we were to dispute the qualities of the guys in SRR's era, would they stack up the same

This is why I don't rate fighters from era to era, I just rate fighters of this era.

It's obvious to see why guys like De La Hoya, Hopkins, Calzaghe and PBF are rated amongst the very pinnacle today, because they've fought the toughest competition in their respective weightclasses.

 

11 of those losses I believe coming after the age of 35.

 

Great thread! :yikes to SRR and ECs' records against top 10s

 

No doubt, SRR on sheer volume of fights will never be beaten.

But take a look at the quality of opponents in his era. There were more tomato cans and less schooled fighters.

I would state a Carlos Baldomir fighter would be good during the SRR era, in fact I know it would - Jake La Motta

"Oh but Jake was WAY better than Baldomir" - no, he wasn't.

 

Damn, I was going to respond thoughtfully before reading that utter nonsense.

 

Both lost about one in four fights, both had high profile wins against the undisputed champion of their division, both were renowned for their solid chin and come forward nature.

Baldomir beat Judah when he was 147 and Judah was 147.

La Motta beat SRR when he was 160 and SRR was 147.

La Motta was more famed because he managed a win over SRR but don't go pretending he's completely out of Baldomir's league, their achievements are very similar.

"Oh but SRR is way better than Judah" - comes back to an era thing, Baldomir beat the best in his division at the time, as did La Motta

What differentiates them? Historical Romance and a movie.

 

No argument for that huh?

 

This is why you think they're even, on accomplishments. When in reality, in actual ability, there's a MUCH bigger accomplishment in beating Robinson than Judah. MUCH bigger.

LaMotta was known as an elite fighter, one who beat guys like Mercel Cerdan, Holman Williams, Bob Satterfield, Fritzie Zivic, Bert Lytell, Tommy Yarozs, Tony Janiro, Jackie Wilson, etc.

Aside from Judah, none of Baldomir's opposition compares really to any of those fighters, much less the top guys. Their resumes are nowhere near each other, nor are their top wins.

As if the weight difference justifies it and makes it in any way more comparable or relevant an edge to Baldomir and his win over Judah.

I've just given you their comparative resumes. You assumed LaMotta was only well regarded because of his win over Robinson, as Baldomir was for his win over Judah, when in fact you didn't take the time to research the rest of his resume and accomplishments, which FAR surpass Baldomir's in every way, as does his top win.

Don't be stupid. Seriously, either take that back or don't even try to defend it. Are you actually insinuating(not in a head to head sense, but purely in terms of rating for their time) that Judah was similar to Ray Robinson for their eras?

You see there why I now made that first comment? You really need to do your historical research, because you're a fish out of water here.

 

.

 

I'll respond tomorrow, hopefully by then you'll learn to quote paragraphs so it'll be easier. But for now, let's just say the second part you quoted where you completely dismissed all the top notch and elite fighters of his day that I mentioned, instead continuing to call him overrated because of a movie and a single win was an another level of ridiculous. Regardless of how little you know of the man, you can't deny and dismiss all of his accomplishments because it doesn't fit your completely distorted reality.

 

Look, I could go through each of those fighters and point out their multiple losses to substandard competition, as was the nature of the day, most fighters had multiple losses and had them to guys that on record alone can only be considered bums.

I could point out the stylstic advantage of modern fighters over a LaMotta and point out that it isn't easy to box that way anymore due to the nature of weigh ins and the power being carried at each weight.

But what's the point? You have this hype in your head that older fighters are better because that's the era you possibly grew up with, the sheer fact and number and reason for this argument was that Pernell hasn't defeated as many Top 10 Ring Rated fighters as Floyd has, all the while losing several fights too.

"Oh But but but" - what else can you judge a boxer on? Taking your word for it that fighters were simply better in the older era won't do, like I said earlier, this is the reason I don't argue era vs era because you get righteous people such as yourself thinking a bit of 1960's knowledge makes you the next Max Kellerman or something.

Newsflash, buddy, you can't compare people except for WHAT THEY DID in their respective eras.

Floyd in his era has beaten more Top 10 rated fighters than Pernell did. Give it 15-20 years, you'll see some other guy just like you, rating him the best of all time and stating he's the greatest fighter because he fought such legendary tough guys as Baldomir and Judah.

Just watch.

 

Your credibility just went down the toilet.

 

Why? Because I dare to compare fighters on their ACHIEVEMENTS and not some romantic notion of how good they were at the time they fought?

Yeah, that makes me completely lacking in credibility compared to you who use opinion rather than sheer fact to back up a point.

 

Anyway, this argument sidetracks the point of the thread so I'm going to pull out of it, as per usual, Mr "Only the older fighters can be considered ATG" appears whenever the question is raised about the newer generations achievements.

Seems to be considered an ATG, you've got to lose a couple fights first.