Replace Tunney with Archie Moore for his title fights with Dempsey - what happens?

My gut tells me that Moore would win the first fight but loose the second.

The first time round Dempsey woul;d have been too far gone and too rusty.

The second time round he would have analysed his mistakes and shaken off a bit of rust.

 

That being the only time he was ko'd, in 77 fights.

 

YOu are truly dreaming on Moore /Tunney being fifty fifty .. your bias , always transparent, has achieved new heights ... Tunney was much faster, stronger, better conditioned and took a far better punch .. he would have wrecked Moore easier than Patterson did , which was pretty easy ... Moore could not deal with the combo of power and speed at a heavyweight level.

 

YOu are truly dreaming on Moore /Tunney being fifty firty .. your bias , always transparent, has achieved new heights ... Tunney was much faster, stronger, better conditioned and took a far better punch .. he would have wrecked Moore easier than Patterson did , which was pretty easy ... Moore could not deal with the combo of power and speed at a heavyweight level. Let him set the pace and he could beat a drum .. make him chase or play catch up and he was slow and vulnerable ...

 

This content is protected

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUT71-jyY2s[/ame]

Tunney much faster, stronger, better conditioned than the prime 1951 Archie Moore shown right here? You are dreaming old man. Tunney was one of the most handpicked fighters of all time. He was an elitist snob, very well protected. He didn't take chances against strong opposition on a consistent basis like Archie did, and he never fought black fighters.

Archie has plenty of advantages over Tunney in a fight. Tunney is by no means better than Archie Moore.

Btw, Floyd Patterson would have had all he could handle with a 1951 Archie Moore shown right here.

 

Archie Moore was great. Gene Tunney was great even though he doesn't meet YOUR standards SQ...For Tunney was a caucasian...Therefore he
genetically couldn't be good...Race,race, race. Darn it give it a rest...
If by reading George Bernard Shaw, Gene Tunney was an "elitest" snob,
I am tainted too as an elitist, for I have seen "My Fair Lady"...
Tunney, though white and studious [how terrible] was a great LH who morphed into a great heavyweight...His stoppage of the "Hard Rock from Down Under", Tom Heeney was very impressive and was a portend of great things to come, but Tunney pocketed $1000,000 from the Dempsey fight,
TAX FREE , met an heiress and got hitched...How terrible this "elitest" knew when to quit when he had money,love, and his health, that
intellectual snob...:hi: Cheers, now back to reading GB Shaw....

 

Gene Tunney ducked George Godfrey for years

 

I don't care about race, Willie Pep is white. He rates in my top 2 of all time

 

George Godfrey was a sparring partner of Jack Dempsey who decked Godfrey several times . So because Gene Tunney who wanted strongly to meet Harry Wills, who declined Tunney's offer, never met Godfrey in the ring than by your standards Tunney was either a coward or a RACIST...
Joe Louis could have given many black contenders ,superior to his opponents a money shot but Louis's braintrust chose not to...Was Louis a RACIST , or picked the best drawing cards, with the least danger.?
Was Ray Robinson a RACIST as he could have given a money shot to Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Bert Lytell, Cocoa Kid, in an over the weight bout, were he charitable and social minded. ? Racism, a word too often bandied about today works both ways, and I believe boxing is a business and to call a fighter a racist is not fair. We all do what's best for us within the confines of the law SQ, even you or I...Cheers...

 

I'm surprised at your call here.

 

Not really. Most people rate Archie as a top 2-3 light-heavyweight of all time, which puts him at/above Tunney's level. Then when you take into consideration Moore fought much greater opposition than Tunney, then you come to realize why your original claim was so absurd.

Moore-Tunney betting odds would be right down the middle.

 

"Godfrey was the best of them all. I've sparred with Dempsey and fought just about every good heavyweight out there and I will tell you, George Godfrey was the best. I was afraid of only two men in my life, My Father and George Godfrey."- Larry Gains

I talked to one historian who claimed Godfrey gave as good as he took in the dempsey sparring sessions leading godfrey eventually to become kicked out of camp because "he was getting too dangerous". Dempsey also avoided fighting godfrey when he made his comeback in 1926.

In Battling Siki's book page 42, it actually claimed George Godfrey knocked out Jack Dempsey during one of their sparring matches leading up to dempsey's fight with Firpo.


TUNNEY SPURNS GODFREY MATCH

"Plans for a battle between geney tunney, former american lightheavyweight champion, and george godfrey, negro heavyweight, as the feature attraction on the annuel christmas boxing carnival in madison square garden on dec 18, today were abandoned. it was announced by the officials of the fund. billy gibson manager of gene tunney declinded the prooffered match. according the the fund officials, gibson asserted harry wills is the only negro heavyweight tunney will box." - los angeles times nov. 4 1925



EASTERN SNAPSHOTS by W. Rollo Wilson [/B]

Nov.12, 1925-The Baron of Leiperville is home again with wonderous tales of the mighty deeds of the "Shadow" along the gilded slope. The "Shadow" is just another way of denoting Gorger George Godfrey, Jimmy's (Dougherty) outsize white elephant. For white elephant George seems now to be. Nobody wants to fight him for love or money. Mr. Wills unostentatiously draws the color line. Mr. Tunney is more blatant in his announcement to the same effect. "I'll fight Harry Wills," broadcasts James Joseph, "but I draw the color line on George Godfrey."

Two things may be on the mind of the Apollo of Greenwich Village, Perhaps he thinks that one "shot" with Wills would give him enough of the filthy lucre for his future earthly needs. Win or lose he would be "in." Fighting Ole Black Lightning [Godfrey] would be a case of all to lose and nothing to gain, he probably thinks. At this time Billy Gibson and Tunney are saying that the Big Three of Boxing are Dempsey, Wills, and the modest Gene. Godfrey would fain make it a foursome, but you can be jolly well sure that the triumvira will continue to say him nay.

One of the first acts of [Dougherty] on his arrival was to release another challenge in the general direction of the above-mentioned Big Three. His latest offer is this:
All any promoter has to do is get Harry, Gene or Jack to sign the papers and pay them whatever they want. Godfrey will come in without asking for a dollar. The aftermath will provide the Dougherty clan with all they will want, because they feel that George can take any of the three.

As is well known Dougherty and Dempsey are the best of friends. Last summer a year ago (1924) Dempsey visited the baronial halls (Leiperville). While here the subject of a bout with George was broached. Jack declared that if he fought at all he would fight Wills, but not Godfrey. Jimmy pressed him for the reason and he said : "Godfrey is a big strong fellow and is young, Wills is getting older and I think he will be the easier man of the two. That is the reason I prefer to fight him, if I fight."


Historians Opinions



"George was a beast--big, athletic, huge puncher and surprisingly good speed and movement for a man his size. I think in his prime, 1925-1931, he was about as good as it got. Nobody really wanted to fight George, and for good reason. Tunney avoided him like the plague. In his prime, with no handcuffs, and this is strictly my opinion, I think he could have beaten, Tunney, Sharkey, Carnera and maybe even Dempsey(certainly a post 1926 Dempsey)."- Kevin Smith



"Not only did Tunney duck Godfrey but so did Dempsey and Wills. From late 1923 Baron (James) Dougherty issued challenges almost daily for Wills to take on Godfrey, who was Philadelphia's greatest drawing card. Promoters Herman Taylor and Bobby Gunnis figured such a match in Phila would do between $250 K to $500 K. and the winner would be the "logical challenger" for Dempsey. Dougherty offered all kinds of perks to Wills including that Godfrey would take the match for $ 1.

I think Godfrey was the most handcuffed fighter of all time. When we interviewed Dougherty's son Howard, who was also a promoter and drove Godfrey across country for his campaign in California, He talked of all the concessions they had to make in order for Godfrey to meet high rated fighters including carrying opponents, fouling out, etc. His loss to Risko was a case in point as some fair eyewitness scribes have noted that Godfrey easily handled Risko for the first eight rounds at Ebbetts Field then Risko made a courageous stand in the last two rounds and they awarded him the decision.

It was widely understood in Philly that Godfrey agreed to "carry" Risko, that his first two matches with Renault were "smellers" and his "foul-outs" were "ordered." Today People don't realize that one leading black challenger (Wills) was tolerated because of his "good name" with the New York commission but two top black challengers were frowned on. Godfrey and his management (Dougherty) tried to alleviate the situation by attempting to lure Wills into the ring by any means, but of course Wills and Paddy Mullins were not about to risk their position that they earned by taking on young, and very dangerous opponent like Godfrey.
By the way check out photos of Godfrey pre 1926 before his frustrations caused him to gain weight. His body was ripped with muscle and he was always in top condition".- Chuck Hasson

This content is protected

George Godfrey sparring with Jack Johnson

This content is protected