Report: Duran in great shape the week before Leonard-Duran II

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Oct 1, 2018.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    from "It's Hate, Not Hype--Sugar Ray Wants to Prove Style, Win Title," Chicago Tribune, Nov. 23, 1980

    “Duran has trained for this fight zealously. Without offering the usual resistance, he has done everything Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel, his wizened, old trainers have asked. […] This time, though, Duran has shed 20 extra pounds without complaint. Friday, when he sparred seven rounds he was down to 149 pounds, Arcel says that by Monday evening he will weight 147, the welter limit.
    [….]
    Having this rematch so soon is a good break for us because we were back in training three months later.”

    “So he didn’t have time to get out of shape?” someone asks.

    “No, he can get out of shape in a half-hour,” Brown says.

    “But we don’t have to tell him that he has to work to get back in shape again,” Arcel says. “This kid comes from a small country. There are a millions-and-a-half people there. He can’t afford to lose. If he loses, he can’t go home.”

    “But I don’t worry about losing, anyways,” Brown says, “In my opinion, Leonard didn’t want to fight. But they offered him so much money, it’s pretty big money you know, that he had to take it. […]”

    “The fight in Montreal was not a boxing match, it was a street fight, Leonard says. “What took place there is something I can correct here in New Orleans. I didn’t utilize my skills there. I was determined to stand my ground and to fight Duran his way. Now, I’ve conquered my stubbornness. I don’t like Duran’s way […] “In Montreal I got caught up in all the hype, I was too much a part of the showmanship,” Ray Leonard says. “I thought it was cute. Nothing is cute except when you win. I’ve watched the tape of that fight almost every day, and I know what I need to do. I think I can be just as rough as Duran. I feel I am just as strong as Duran. He didn’t cut the ring on me last time. I let him do things that let him dominate the fight. That won’t happen again. I’m ready, and so is he.”
     
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  2. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    " Juan, Tendre otro " says Duran
     
  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    One look at how Duran is built in the first fight. ( superbly conditioned and cut ) compared to second fight ( smooth body lacking the muscle tone of the first fight ) tells me a very different story.
    The first fight represented a finely tuned physique brought on from months of hard training.
    The second fight represented a physique that was more consumed with losing fat than building up to peak conditioning which is why he looked so much smoother and lacked the muscularity of the first fight.
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    So what’s going on in your opinion? Was Arcel lying? Seems like he and Brown were consistent before and after the fight, for what it’s worth.
     
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  5. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I cant speak for Brown and Arcel. Might be some psychological warfare going on there because Leonard pressed for a quick rematch date knowing Duran was out partying. From what I've read thru the yrs since Duran spent this entire camp losing weight instead of training for a fight. That's the power 8 mil has over management. Mike Trainor was on Leonard's payroll for very good reason
    Just look at how there built and how they start the fight and you can see the difference yourself
     
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  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Yeah, I’ve been reading those stories for years but they all seem to come from after-the-fact explanations. It would be nice if there were at least one single source from the period between the fights, explaining that Duran had put on more weight than usual or had a rougher camp than usual. I’m planning to look into this some more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  7. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Or maybe it's just way simpler than that .. Maybe he just wanted to party and spend the money and didn't want to/care to properly prepare for the fight …. When this was brought up before, another poster, can't remember off hand said that he watched Duran in camp train and his opinion was that Duran looked like he really didn't even give a sh**. Take it for what it is but SRL does this whole BS smoke and mirrors 30 for 30 looking for the reason, when he already knew the answer and is why he was working on the rematch ASAP
     
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  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    From "Duran, Sugar Rematch Near?," Muncie Evening Press, September 26, 1980:

    "Duran has been working out at a camp in Grossinger, NY for about two weeks while negotiations continued between Eleta and the Leonard camp, which had objected to Don King's involvement in a rematch. Eleta said Duran, whose constant weight problems forced him to move up to the welterweight division, had already lost 10 pounds and would not have trouble getting under the 147-lb limit."
     
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  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I've seen a few articles that report on Duran's training camp and press conferences leading up to the Leonard rematch and not a single one gives any indication of Duran appearing to have weight issues. I'll search some more later in the week.
     
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  10. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

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    Duran was actually suffering from a 2 month partying binge. He looked soft in the rematch.
     
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    As a relatively neutral and ignorant observer on the Duran/Leonard thing, my initial thoughts:

    The guys who say Duran was out of shape will have to explain these articles. They've explained them as psychological warfare against Leonard. That makes a lot of sense, since Duran's trainers are not going to admit to the press that their fighter is a fat guy who's facing an uphill battle against Leonard.

    The guys who say Duran was in shape would have to explain Duran's softer physique. This is important because it's a lot easier to lie to the press, than to fake your body composition. I'm very curious about theories on this.

    Interesting thread so far.
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I suppose one angle would be to explain Duran's physique differences between the fights as self-deception by fans, who already know the outcome, and see what they want to see.

    That could be tested by taking footage from both fights, putting the TV on mute, and showing the footage to somebody who's never seen either fight. And then asking them whether Duran looks softer in one of them.
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    These "the trainers might be lying to the media" theories that have been popping up to explain away newspaper accounts in recent threads seem pretty remarkable to me. Are there many other examples of trainers systematically misleading reporters in such a systematic manner? I guess I wouldn't be surprised but none come to mind.

    I suspect that people are exaggerating the change in his physical appearance during the rematch. I'd bet that if you compare it to his later fights when he was supposedly in perfect shape, you won't see much difference. I would have to take another look though, because the footage for Leonard-Duran II is unusually grainy for some reason. The announcers and the media didn't seem to notice anything off the night of the fight, from what I recall. I've asked before but nobody can seem to produce any contemporaneous source where anyone refers to any issues with Duran's weight or conditioning. It only seems to come up during the post-fight rationalizations that took place months later.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  14. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I dont why Duran's supporters can't except the fact that he lost the rematch . Harry Greb fought Gene Tunney five times and was able to beat him once . That's still a hell of an accomplishment. It's okay
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I can't call to mind many examples of trainers systematically misleading reporters off the top of my head. I think Dundee was in the habit of telling the press all sorts of nonsense about Ali being in great shape during his later career. Emanuel Steward would talk up Klitschko a bit. Duva's weird display with Golota punching a heavy bag with shorts on always struck me as being for the cameras, but I'm not willing to stake much on that one.

    However, I would almost expect trainers to lie to the press about their fighter's preparedness. This is a big money matchup, and it's the trainers' job to give their man a psychological edge over the opponent. It's also their job to promote the fight, or at least not interfere with the fight's promotion. We also know that fighters won't always be honest with their fans. (They're always in the best shape of their lives. They will make all sorts of excuses for their losses. etc.) Heck, the biggest question right now in the heavyweight division is whether Tyson Fury is scamming us about being ready for Wilder.

    Given all that, I doubt that a trainer would tell a reporter, "Oh, yeah, Duran's a giant ball of lard right now. Leonard's gonna kill him. The fight's a joke, frankly -- all Leonard has to do is dance for a few rounds and Duran will quit. Boy, all those paying customers are in for a disappointing show..."

    I exaggerate for effect. But you see my point.
     
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