Report: Duran in great shape the week before Leonard-Duran II

That's my understanding of the theory, but perhaps one of its proponents have a slightly different take on it.

 

There is John Thomas jumping on the bandwagon. I wish you guys would be more original and come up with your own things and not be puppets for typical opinion. Think for yourself. Your comment does not make sense. Heavyweight does not apply to a set weight. They had a 154 pound weight limit and Duran fought there as early as 1978.. Very significant. The fact is Duran fought at 154 before Leonard and Benitez and Hearns which eliminates his excuses that he was smaller. Ray moved in the second fight and won easily which makes Ray the variable. The excuse is Duran moved up and fought the legends, but in reality they moved up and fought him.

 

It is all an excuse or excuses. Most Duran fans are respectable, but you have some who have puppet opinions and don't form real theories of their own. And these are the ones who make up the threads and then get upset when I mention my opinions. And I will not stop saying what I feel. Believing general excuse opinions are fine if they are built on reality, but those are more on excuses. Ridiculous excuses you would not give any other fighter.. Everytime Duran lost to a legend he had an excuse that he was out of shape or small, yet when he won he somehow trained for the lesser guys and the size was not an issue. The general excuses. Duran loses and somehow he was out of shape and he had no time to train and that mean he didn't lose or quit. He was being hit to the body and head in round 8 and he stopped. I think he knew he was going to be knocked out and he quit. And the excuses went on about Benitez, a fight which is not mentioned. His fans want to mention Moore a guy with 11 fights and dental surgery and Hagler, where Marvin fought tentatively. But Benitez outclassed him and outpunched him I must day, which kept Duran back. Even on the ropes Benitez controlled Duran. And was Duran small moving up in weight? No.. He fought at 154 as early as 1978... before Hearns Leonard and Benitez fought there.. So this small guy moving up is nonsense. I think Ray outclassed Duran in the rematch. He knew he had to box. he was motivated by watching Ray Charles sing the anthem and knew he had to win, and he had the skills to win He beat better greats than Duran did. He was a greater fighter. He didn't have the longevity, but he was a greater fighter.

 

Pretending that Duran was a natural 154 pounder because he ballooned up to 151 ONCE in 1978 which was ten pounds higher than he weighed 5 months earlier and nearly 20 pounds more than he weighed nine months earlier is stupid.

 

This isn't true, Arum is on record as saying he thought Duran looked really out of shape. I thought somebody posted an article quoting Arcel that he wanted the fight postponed. That seems like evidence before the fight, not just after. Plus we have circumstantial proof just looking at his career. When he had longer layoffs between fights, he couldn't make it down to defend his LW title. He was taking fights at 154 while still LW champion BECAUSE he couldn't make weight. In every instance where Duran had time in between fights like the one in between SRL 1 & 2, he took fights at 147 and 154 because he couldn't get down to the right weight but they wanted him in the gym. The false perception here is that SRL rushed the fight as soon as possible so Duran would be out of shape. That implies though he had a shorter time period in between that fight that he usually did in the past and that isn't true. He had a longer layoff than what was typical for him, and that is what allowed him to balloon up so much. The fact is, his career shows just how out of shape he can get in between fights. This isn't something that wasn't know then, nor something one would have to make up after that fact.

 

Him fighting there first has NOTHING to do with him not being smaller. He simply is smaller, and there is no two ways about it. Him fighting there first, doesn't change that fact, and every time you repeat this point you seem sillier and sillier. It's been pointed out that he fought there BECAUSE he was having trouble making the LW weight, and couldn't get down there to DEFEND HIS TITLE. He was taking fights at 154 to gradually move up soundly like you're trying to present it. He moved there because he was grossly out of shape to defend his LW TITLE. He first moved to 147, which was where they thought he would naturally go, not straight to 154. So again, him fighting there had zero to do with him not being smaller, and everything to do with him being smaller and out of shape. Each time you say this ******ed line of logic, you stock goes further down.

 

But didn't you know Klompton, him fighting at 154 because he was out of shape, SURELY means he wasn't smaller than SRL or Hearns... I mean, surely it does.

 

I read what Arum said, that Duran waddled out to his pool among a throng of partiers and that he must have weighed 200 pounds. They rushed Duran into that fight for the money and if he lost he'd get fired up and there'd be a third fight. Duran should have had a non title fight and got into fighting condition physically and more importantly mentally

 

Why was he out of shape? That is part of being a great fighter being in shape. Otherwise what excuse do you have? And Duran being smaller? I think fighting at 154 before the greats he fought is significant. As far as I know most fighters move up. Manny Pacman beat Margarito after winning titles at featherweight, bantamweight. He did it and he made no excuses because he won, but he won. Is he greater than Duran? I think so to be honest. His resume shows it. What gives Duran the excuses other fighters do not get? And Manny beat better guys at below lightweight than Duran did at lightweight. Why isn't he given the excuses of Duran? And the fact is Manny fought at welterweight long after Oscar or Shane or Floyd. That is just one fighter. Hearns moved up. Benitez moved up. Duran gets considerations for and excuses for doing things other fighters did and never got considerations for. Everyone has trouble moving up or at weights. How is what I am saying silly? You can say that over and over, but my point is valid. Sure he went to 147 in 1979, he fought at 154 in 1978.. Why not? He passed over 140 since he probably had trouble making that weight. My stock is solid on this subject because I am right and boxing is filled with guys moving up and doing exactly what Duran did and some losing and not getting those considerations. The excuses are ridiculous. Absolutely.

 

ballooned up? I guess Hearns ballooned up to 175 when he fought Andries. Well I think he was 173 technically. Hearns fought Andries at a weight 21 pounds higher less than 9 months later than defending his 154 pound title. But that was different because he was 6'1"? The excuses are too much. Many great fighters did what Duran did. And did better than he did moving up with no excuses.

 

Let me get your point straight. You keep saying there was no contemporary sources claiming Duran was out of shape, but his career exactly illustrates he had trouble making weight in between fights. You agree that this is an issue that his trainers talked about WELL BEFORE the SRL fights? They are on record saying they need to keep him in the gym or else he just balloons up in weight. So then, if this is a pattern that's been going on for decades, why then, would I need proof that it happened yet again before this fight? What's worse, as illustrated when examining his record, he got the most out of shape when he had longer layoffs in between fights like he had before SRL 2. So how is that not proof he likely ballooned up in weight for this weight when this had been the pattern for his entire career. Yet I'm supposed to believe when he won his biggest fight and made the most money, he decided to then not rest on his laurels? That seems an odd line of logic to take.

 

Why is he given excuses is what I am saying. He could not get down in weight because he didn't train or he was allowed to gain weight like all other fighter do not have these problems? Donald Curry should have had all the excuses in the world and should have if he were Duran.. Sugar Ray rushed him was one they said after the fact. I remember something about Duran eating 2 steaks and had a gallon of water the nightof the fight, which is what I heard the night or day after the second fight believe it or not.. I remember hearing that and thinking, wow that is some excuse. I just thought he was beaten. I think the story of Duran is with Benitez. He trained and he fought a guy who was smaller also. not as short as Duran but a smaller guy from a lower weight and Benitez was quicker and outfought him on the inside. Speed was the problem for Duran, and it is hard for his fans to admit that maybe what was tougher was fighting the faster top notch guys. Which is what I always said. Excuses don't mean anything. Hearns is one of my favorite fighters, that nonsense excuse that a hanger on massaged his leg and his leg weak for Hagler was ridiculous. Where was this same guy who massaged him when he fought Luigi Minchillo or Roberto Duran? I don't excuse from anyone.

 

Do you have his tale of the tape for Leonard 1 and 2? Duran might have been shorter, but perhaps he was more compact than others ( Bigger neck, chest, and waist ) at 147-154 pounds?

So I checked, and the above is mostly correct

[url]http://www.flickriver.com/photos/45521998@N00/6781026670/[/url]

Roberto to me was best at lightweight, where his competition wasn't as stiff. Duran fans have a hard time dealing with Tommy Hearns blow out, which in my opinion was more of an impressive whopping than Foreman put on Frazier. Duran had trouble with speedy fighters. His defense vs. Hearns, well he had none.

Maybe Duran could shed 2-3 pounds here but he was not over weight for Hearns. Judge for yourself:

[url]https://www.thefightcity.com/june-15-1984-hearns-vs-duran-thomas-hearns-roberto-duran-marvin-hagler-sugar-ray-leonard-davey-moore-four-kings/[/url]

His no mas quit job which happened after Leonard was landing hard to the body and head.

 

This is EXACTLY why people view your stance on this as clownish. Who are all these people that agree with your stance on this. I've never heard one against with you that Duran wasn't smaller than SRL or Hearns. Not one. The issue isn't MOVING up clownshoes, the issues is HOW you move up and when you move up. Pac moved up GRADUALLY and in sequence with his career as he got older. He was struggling to make weight and taking fights at 147 and 154 while he was featherweight champion. THAT IS THE ISSUE YOU CAN'T GET THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. Pac, like other greats that have moved up did so in a planned, and generally methodical way, not the way Duran did. If Duran was taking a fight at 154 in 78', WHILE LW CHAMP, and had to move down to defend his title, how is that moving up gradually and naturally? If he was moving to 154, sure, you have to start somewhere. But wouldn't go from LW straight to 154, you'd take fights at 140 or 147 first. Just like Pac did as you mentioned. Duran didn't, he took the fight at 154, not because he was moving up there then, BUT BECUASE HE COULDN'T MAKE THE LW LIMIT to defend his title. That is exponentially different than what Pac did or what Hearns did or what SRL did. That is the issue you can't seem to understand. It proves the exact opposite point you're trying to make.