Reverse Carnera debate challenge

Okay, I will go first.

I don’t think Max Schmeling knew what the hell he was talking about when he said Carnera was a "technically sound boxer" who "could penetrate any defence" with his reach and leverage. Or that he "was not surprised Carnera kayoed sharkey".

Like Max could predict that?

It’s not like Schmeling was ever able to study film and see things that the world missed about great fighters. The German simply was not that insightful and nor was he able to implement a boxing plan himself. So how could he rate Primo?

Larry Gains clearly could not have known what he was talking about when he called primo a "damaging puncher just the same". Who was Larry to rate world class men? Larry fought that big blimp George Godfrey and a bunch of old timers who all fought like they were fencing about in Charlie Chaplin films. Sparring a 190lb feather fistlike Jack Dempsey in no way qualifies Gains for comparing Primo to a “damaging puncher”.

Jack Sharkey, though a fine fighter himself may have said Primo was a "much better fighter than given credit for" who he "didn't credit he might improve" from their first fight and "handled me with ease" in the rematch, could not have known what on Earth he was talking about either.

Primo had barely fought that many fights between their first fight and their second fight. I think it was 32 fights between Sharkey Carnera I and Sharkey Carnera II, but hey, they were not good fighters. Where was the improvement if it was just the 1930s? an era that produced no great fighters or trainers in any weight class at all. boxing was just not very important in those days. No wonder there were no great champions. There was no infrastructure, or as many people involved in boxing back then to produce all time greats. There was not the great crowds like Wilder gets today.

Max Baer might have knocked out a prime Max Schmeling but what was he thinking when he predicted Carnera would beat Joe Louis!!! Everyone knew Primo was a joke, even by the lame standard of the day where the important fight towns back then produced fighters only as good as Henry Armstrong, Barney Ross, Freddie Steele, Benny Leonard who were all extremely crude technically compared to today.

Joe Louis on Carnera- "he couldn't punch, but he had a pretty decent Jab. He pushed with his right and he was awkward. Mostly he tried to scare me with his weight. It was hard to get under his guard at first, but chappie told me to pace myself and the openings would come"

What did Louis know about it being hard to get under anybody’s guard? He only fought bums of the month. To think now we have heavyweights like Wilder who is a boxing master by comparison. Manuel Charr. Guys like Charles Martin. Etc etc. No bums of the month anymore.

Another thing about Primo, even though he physically could have been a good puncher he was restricted by the boxing equipment of the time. Here is an article showing that big guys really could not be that good today or then!

http://imgur.com/a/mVOgH -small glove handicap for big fighters.

 

Be a bit more subtle!

 

I could not resist. Lol.

 

It does not sound like you even watched the Godfrey fight?

 

I was mentioning that Larry Gains fought the prime George Godfrey as well as Primo.

I only refered to Larrys thoughts on primo.

I have seen Primo fight Godfrey. But that was not what I was talking about.


Let’s see some anti Carneraists use the reverse argument?

 

It was just awful!

 

At least I took up the challenge sir.

 

Janitor would represent Primo the best and i think Mac would go against him the best.

 

You just saw it as an opportunity to do some PR for Primo.God am I sick of seeing his name here every ****ing week !

 

And you would be the wallflower sniping on the sidelines..

 

Okay, a more subtle version of the reverse argument...

Primo simply never got to execute his power sufficiently because he was too musclebound to reach full force against lighter men. He sacrificed a lot of his leverage just to make contact frequently enough. Often resorting to dabbing and pushing, which while effective because it offset what his opponent planned to do, really was not an example of technical superiority.

Primo benefited from perhaps the longest run of easy/ impossible to lose/ set up type matches than most champions. This was not just during the learning process but as public type executions between meaningful fights that further allowed Primo to stay sharp. There just was not the demand for any other fighter to been seen in so many uncompetitive fights. Yet they may have helped primo unfairly maintain his edge between bigger fights where his rivals had to stay idle.

Whilst Carnera did beat up Superheavyweight sized men too, some that were good enough to beat men like Arturo Godoy, largely The size advantage Primo had was always pretty ridiculous against the best fighters available for him to fight.

If we are to measure the greatness of Primo we must bare in mind for the most part he fought in a very adapted/compromised way which really would not work had he been smaller.

On merit, primo was an average champion comparable to most short span champions like Sharkey, Jimmy Ellis, Leon Spinks, Tommy Burns, Ernie Terrell, John Tate, Buster Douglas, Jimmy Braddock, Ingemar Johansson even if he had two successful title defences. Each of these guys were champion at a time where argument could have been made that they were not necessarily the best in the world whilst champion.

On merit Carnera probably was not any worse than them.

If there was a worse type champion then it would be the kind of champion who did not deserve the decision that gained him the title in the first place or a champion awarded a title without winning it in the ring. I don’t think Primo was one of those since he knocked out Sharkey to gain the title.

 

Not at all. Are you too thick to read and understand the topic and purpose of the thread?

Primo is at enough of a disadvantage already without having a whalloper like you representing him. It would be like taking corn from a blind c0cky for these guys.

 

As predicted.

 

If you've somehow appointed yourself as the top Primo representative this threads been a waste of time. I'm waiting to sit back and see some decent input and debate not rubbish like

"Primo simply never got to execute his power sufficiently because he was too musclebound to reach full force against lighter men."

I mean Jesus H what a load of rot.