review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

INTRO
The Tyson 91 to 94 thread inspired me to make an in depth ****ysis of how tysons career would have gone if he hadnt gone to prison. Mike tyson was scheduled to face evander holyfield for the undisputed heavyweight championship on september 8th 1991. So its the first fight in mike tysons fictional career without prison.
This fight ultimately happened almost exactly 5 years later and its result is often used by fans to make conclusions on how it would have gone in 91. Here is my take on it. Now first of all i would like to state that both mike tyson and evander holyfield are among my favorite fighters and i have watched. And studied all of their fights several times. In my opinion evander holyfield ranks above mike tyson in my top atg heavyweight list based on his accomplishments, longevity, iron will and ability to overcome the odds and large physical disadvantages. So please do not try to color me as a "hater" or "fanboy" if you disagree.

 

WHAT ALLOWED HOLYFIELD TO BEAT TYSON IN 1996?


I cannot see evander who weighed 205 pounds at the time (sometimes weighing closer to 210 but only when wearing clothes and shoes on the scale) putting tyson away like he did in 1996
when it took him 10 rounds to put away an immobile, legless and very hittable michael dokes who proceeded to get one punch KO'd by ruddock. Fact is that the muscle he added through the early and middle nineties made him stronger(obviously) and increased his punching power, evidenced by the fact that in the first fight he could barely move bowe and by the third fight a bulked up evander knocked bowe down and almost out, as well as knocking the very durable ray mercer down. It also added to his already formidable punch resistance. While bowe knocked him around like a ragdoll in the 10th in the first fight, in the second, weighing 217 he was not hurt and in the rubber match he was knocked out because he gassed out for some reason (hepatitis according to evander himself) Bert cooper almost knocked evander out as well in the 3rd round in their fight in 1991 while mercer, tyson, and even lewis barely made a dent in him years later when he was bigger and stronger but also smarter and tightened his defense up. In 1991 He did not have the size to bull tyson around, the ring smarts or discipline to implement and stay with a gameplan by picking his spots, first covering up, dodging or rolling with the punch and then countering as soon as tyson had blown his 1 or 2 punch load (mike was no longer "perpetual motion" as ray leonard called him) and tie him up on the inside while putting his arm around mike's left to prevent getting hit by the left hook.
WHAT DID MIKE DO WRONG?
by 1996 mikes workrate had slipped and he attacked or charged evander in "bursts" most often a with a loaded up and telegraphed lead right with nothing behind it or alternatively a leaping left hook with the occasional right behind it, very predictable and easy to counter as mike didnt follow up on the single shots nor did he move his head or body out of the way after unloading. In their actual first fight he just threw a bomb, didnt even hit him flush and waited there expecting evander to crumble and getting punished for it over and over.
in 96 where he was coming off a 4 year lay off, had lost ALOT of footspeed and some handspeed and worst of all was swinging wildly with no timing whatsoever. I think the only times i even saw mike hit holy flush with good shots in their actual fight was that first punch in the first round that sent evander back, and the double right combo in round 5 as well as 1 or 2 right hook body- left hook head flurries that did not even have full power as he was throwing them from close range while being pushed back on the back foot where he could not generate power, by Holyfield. I believe that this was a big part of Evanders spectacular victory in 1996, that he was able to push mike on the back foot and take away the forward momentum and leverage on his punches. I dont think evander would be strong or smart enough to do that in 1991. Most of mikes attempted hooks or lead right hands did not land flush. Evander intelligently rolled with them and countered immediately. Another oddity is that although evander kept his head low and had his chin carefully tucked in, mike rarely used the uppercut even after having some success with it.
Still When mike connected cleanly his punches did have effect although Holyfield was never in serious trouble.
WHAT NO ONE TALKS ABOUT
Now also let me add to what has been purely objective ****ysis so far, my personal opinon. Mike was coming on strong in the 5th round and was winning the 6th until evander rubbed and rammed his head into mike until he was cut, keep in mind mike landed on of his right hook body left hook head combos up close just seconds before the cut was discovered, the butts (intentional or not is not for me to judge and only holyfield knows) clearly and no one can argue this, unsettled confused and dazed tyson who right after started being unsteady on his feet, looking unbalanced and was being repeatedly shoved back by evander, this does not happen to a fighter who is aggressive, has all his senses and is confident. If mike hadnt been unsettled in some way by the clash of heads and the cut he would not have let evander repeatedly shove him off. He looked wobbly everytime evander pushed him, struggling to regain balance almost like he was drunk, EVEN though mike had been landing the harder punches through the 4th(imo), the 5th and the first half of the 6th and bobby czyz and ferdie pacheco commented on holyfield looking weary, his punches not having the same steam on them anymore, and czyz described mikes occasional body shots as "taking the whiff out of evander right away" and "that right hand to the body will tell in a couple of rounds" so why was mike wobbly? He wasnt necessarily too tired, he was still charging in and punching(although one inaccurate swing at a time) for several rounds after that. He wasnt tying up evander or trying to get a rest another way so he wasnt all punched out yet weary and looking almost "limp". Then with 1 minute 12 seconds left in the round, holyfield hit him with a VERY low blow which i again dont want to call intentional but it was very suspect to say the least. This GREATLY bothered mike and his lack of balance and coordination from that and the clash of heads is was caused the knockdown when he tried to leap in with a left hook and was caught off balance.
MIKES LACK OF HEART?
This further discouraged him and mentally took him out of the fight. He even attempted to headbutt evander back in the following round, in my opinion to open up his cut or have the fight stopped in some other way while he still looked like he was in the fight instead of getting knocked out which i think he could feel was going to happen and he just gave up. I dont think he initiated that clash of heads in the 7th to retaliate against evander as he was uncharacteristically clean throughout the fight(indicative of that hunger and meanness he showed against tyrell biggs and razor ruddock, being gone) and could have just low blowed or elbowed him which are options to hurt an opponent without the risk of banging your own head against something and almost knocking yourself out. He was definitely looking for a way out of a situation that he did not prepare for and that was out of his comfort zone. It was all downhill from then.
Now the fact that mike was so easily unsettled by the fact that things were not going his way and he was being roughed up a bit shows to me that he had lost the "i refuse to be hurt" attitude that he had before prison and that he had not mentally prepared for a tough fight, which he should have considering how great of a fighter evander was.

 

I dont believe mike was in great shape for "Finally" in 1996 He was 3 pounds heavier than against seldon in his last fight but noticeably fatter, and now that showtime released the fights in High quality you can clearly see how soft and chubby he looks compared to the infamous rematch in 1997. In the first holyfield fight mike looked the "fattest" he had ever looked until the nielsen fight. And it showed in his lack of speed, evasive abilities and conditioning compared to the 1997 rematch where mike was displaying faster reflexes by quickly ducking under evanders hooks especially in that wild sequence after the second bite where he looks very fast and ferocious.
His face was also not as drawn in and lean in the first fight as it was in the ruddock, mcneeley and bruno 2 fights and the holyfield rematch, the leanness of the face being an indicator of very low bodyfat. Mike also claims in his book that he had started doing hard drugs again, that he hadnt touched in 15 years, right after the seldon fight. Although i would take that with a grain of salt, it may just be an excuse he uses for his loss.

 

HOW WOULD WERE TYSON AMD HOLYFIELD DIFFERENT IN 1991?

Assuming Tyson does not go to jail and stays with rich giachetti (who had him work behind the jab and later in 1997 in the bite fight also had him moving his head although he did not really do so against stewart and ruddock) he fights evander holyfield late 1991 early 1992
Now holyfield still liked to brawl alot in this career and im going to assume he fights this way against mike in 91 even though it may not be in his best interest, because he did so against bert cooper, a pretty big puncher but mediocre boxer who he could have easily outboxed but chose not to. Now holyfield was badly hurt in this fight and i just cannot see tyson letting evander off the hook if he had him hurt like cooper did, in addition tyson is faster, an ATG finisher, punches atleast as hard punch for punch as cooper(but mike did so in combinations at this point in his carreer) and is a much better boxer and much more elusive than the one dimensional jab-less cooper, even though mike was not as hard to hit as under rooney, and mike had a granite chin especially when motivated (i believe that punch resistance is in part determined by the fighters will to win and unwillingness to be defeated or knocked out as silly as it sounds its true in my personal experience in the ring and in the experience of many others i know) as evidenced in his wars with ruddock, mike after losing his title to douglas had a renewed hunger for fighting. If you closely watch the 2 ruddock fights.
In 1991 evander would have gotten hit much more cleanly, and more often as mike was constantly attacking back then instead of in bursts and he would have gotten hit in combinations which mike still threw back then. Evander would not be able to avoid getting hit due to not yet quite as advanced ring smarts, defence, discipline and his propensity to stay in the pocket, exchange and "wait for the receipt after punching"(as gil clancy called it against cooper) which would be deadly against tyson who would immediately fire back after being hit as seen against ruddock. He would have gotten hurt eventually, especially if mike remembers to go to the body, one of evanders few weak points, as he had a small waist and could be hurt to the body and slowed down as shown in the dokes fight and in spots in the first tyson fight even though mike did not go downstairs much at all compared to how he ripped to ruddocks heavier and more solid body.
One could argue that even courageous evander would not be foolish enough to get into a slugfest with mike, given mikes reputation as a puncher and finisher, HOWEVER as evidenced throughout evander's career, he never "ran" nor was especially hard to hit even when facing big punchers like bowe, lewis, mercer and foreman and once he got hit he was very inclined to exchange and try to fight his way out of it(atleast until the end of the round at which he would try to reset and follow his gameplan again)
This can be seen clearly in the foreman fight where evander in several instances stands infront of george and tees off on him although george hit even harder than mike and evander felt it and still decided to stay there even after getting tagged hard in the 7th round. in the first fight with bowe in the famous 10th round evander again tries to brawl his way out of a predicament after being hurt. The difference is that mike in bowe's shoes would be punching harder and faster, evander with his eyes swollen would not see them coming and mike would stay on top of him and finish unlike bowe who punched himself out and yet still evander had worn himself out in that 10th and was knocked down in the next round. Point is, although the Real Deal's courage may keep him in the fight and would make it a competitive affair, his fighters instinct would not serve him well. Once mike got to him and he would atleast once ( even the harshest tyson critics must admit that 1991 tyson would atleast land some hard shots on evander) and evanders instincts took over, he would get stopped by tyson. Too courageous for his own good.
Now knowing evander can be hit and trust me mike would hit him as he was MUCH faster back then, in condition to fight hard for 12 rounds(see ruddock 2) and was actually accurate with his shots as he was almost constantly active since he turned pro. In my opinion since evander felt he had something to prove in respect to beating tyson this would have made him even less likely to stay composed and follow a game plan. However 5 years later he had gained a lot of experience and had become a smarter boxer after the losses to bowe which made him realize he cannot just brawl himself out of every situation against any opponent.
You will see that mike ferociously hit back anytime ruddock hit him hard in both fights. he even knocked him down and accross the ring with a massive counter left hook after being tagged a couple times in a row by the incredibly hard punching ruddock. In the 6th round ruddock rallied and hit mike with some ungodly hooks and uppercuts that almost picked mike up off his feet and he fought back and even stuck his chin out at ruddock daring him to hit him again, taking a full power shot from a one punch KO artist on his untucked, unprotected chin. He TKO'd ruddock the very next round. (Yes the stoppage was a little early but it was the matter of one more punch against a fighter who was wobbling back against the ropes with his hands down, one more punch and no one would have complained. If he was covering up its a different story but his hands were down and mike WAS gonna keep connecting and i think in the end ruddock should be glad he didnt take any more punches than he did.)

 

FINAL PREDICTION FOR 1991

Now how do i see their fight going had it happened as scheduled in 1991?
Mike comes in great shape probably between 216 and 218 motivated to show the world he is still the baddest man on the planet. Given that giachetti had mike move his head when they did fight holyfield, im going to assume that mike would have trained for elusiveness in 1991 as well especially with growing criticism of his "eroding skills".
Evander comes in great shape as well(as always) weighing between 205-208 he will probably not want to go to war right away but will want to work his jab and feel mike out first, and as the fight goes on will want to either use his reach to stay all the way out of range, countering when mike steps in, especially if he does so without the jab, or staying very close to smother mikes power.
I think mike will attack as always. Evander having never faced such a dynamic and explosive puncher before will get hit and get hit hard in the first 3 rounds. But mike will slow slightly and evander will get into a rhythm and maybe even win some of the middle rounds but will eventually succumb to pressure and the punishment and will be worn down. If hes smart he can hang on to the final bell but i dont think he will be, i think he will fight and it will cost him. Yes Evander has a tremendous amount of heart and competitive drive and he was mentally tougher than Tyson but in my honest opinion, mikes physical advantage in terms of punching power, his speed(evander was fast as well) his solid chin most importantly, and evanders propensity to brawl which is the exact opposite of what he should do, result in two men going to war, where Tyson can hurt holyfield but Holyfield cannot really hurt tyson, unless he gasses out. The strength and size that allowed evander to implement his game plan in 1996 and helped his punch resistance and power was not there yet back then either and he was not as seasoned and smart in the ring back then either. So if they fight 10 times. 2/10 times 1st to 3rd round Tko/ko for tyson. 4/10 times 9th to 11th round TKO for tyson 2/10 times Tyson dec holyfield. 1/10 times 11th to 12th round tko holyfield and 1/10 times Holyfield dec Tyson.
If i had to bet i would bet on tyson taking him out before the end of the 10th with tyson ahead by a few points on the scorecards

 

Did you bother to read anything i wrote? Do you have any reasoning behind this assumption besides concluding that because evander won in 96 he would do so in 91 as well?
I think i made a decent case why the result of the1996 fight would not translate to 1991. BTW i am a big fan of evander but i just dont think he can handle what mike brings to the table at this point

 

Thanks! Let me know what you think when you read it all.
I think what made mike so ferocious and dangerous is also what brought him down.
But even in a best case scenario, i think a good puncher with a good jab and long reach, with a decent chin to weather his early storm would always bother him. If bowe was less hittable and had a better chin he would have been tough for tyson. If lewis had a good chin or managed to fight a perfect fight and somehow avoid getting caught he would have beat tyson. George foreman is very very tough for tyson as well, he might have a hard time hitting tyson because even though tyson would be coming to him, foreman mark 2 was slow. But once he hit mike solid, mike would be in trouble and all bets are off. Question is if he would last long enough to catch mike. I think there is a decent chance he does considering he has a solid chin. But foreman vs tyson sure would be exciting. Im split 50/50 between a mike tyson tko by round 3 or a george foreman ko/tko by round 6

 

Thanks alot! I appreciate it!

 

I agree that will always be a tough fight but in my opinion Tyson just has too much inhis ****nal at this point in his career.