review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

If I remember correctly, it was you, or Mongoose, or Unforgiven, one of you, who posted a while back that Tyson "learned" a new post prison trick...the straight right hand. Because supposedly he never threw a straight right before and added it to his arsenal. Yeah, that was probably you.

And yet here we have a .5 second clip of Tyson throwing "identical" straight right hands 5 years apart.

Look, we'll never agree on this because you're one to think that a 4 years off, post prison stint, 4 fights equaling less than 8 total rounds Tyson is the same fighter before prison. Here's the correct answer - he wasn't the same fighter.

 

Do you have a learning deficiency? How many times do you need to be explained something before it sinks in? In March you jumped to the conclusion that I stated Tyson never threw a right hand before, and I corrected your assumption.


YOU: Not sure why you think Tyson all of a sudden developed a straight right hand. He used it in plenty of fights before the Bruno rematch.

ME: No. Tyson never used the right like he did in Bruno 2 previously. He may have a thrown some right hands but never this effectively in volume.

[url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/what-was-tyson-s-best-post-jail-performance.583195/page-3#post-18448468[/url]

91 Tyson and 96 Tyson don't look as drastically different as these two guys:

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Umm, OK. So because Tyson threw more right hands in volume against Bruno that means what exactly?

Bottom line is you're trying to make Tyson look like he was the same fighter in '96 as he was in '91, or maybe even better since he threw more straight right hands.

 

June 28, 1991 - August 19, 1995: 4 years between Tyson fights.
November 23, 1991 - April 22, 1994: Holyfield fought 6 bouts while Tyson was in prison. Holyfield "retires" for a year.
April 22, 1994 - May 20, 1995: 1 year between Holyfield fights because of his semi-retirement. He throws himself right into the fire by facing Ray Mercer and winning a close 10 round decision.

1995 - the year Tyson returned from a 3 year stint in prison where he couldn't spar and couldn't even lift weights because it was forbidden in Ohio.
1995 - the year Evander Holyfield fought Ray Mercer (10 rounds) and Riddick Bowe (8 rounds).
1995 - the year Tyson fought Peter McNeeley (1 round) and Buster Mathis Jr. (3 rounds).
1996 - the year Holyfield fought Bobby Czyz (5 rounds).
1996 - the year Tyson fought Frank Bruno (3 rounds) and Bruce Seldon (1 round).

So when Tyson returned he fought a total of 8 rounds before facing Holyfield in '96. Holyfield fought a total of 23 rounds since Tyson's return.

From Tyson's last fight in 1991 to his bout with Holyfield in 1996 he fought a combined 8 total rounds and didn't fight beyond the 3rd round in a couple fights. The other fights were 1 round shams.

From November 23, 1991 when Holyfield faced Bert Cooper, he fought a combined 80 total rounds leading up to his bout with Tyson in 1996. 5 bouts were for the championship.

 

Yes, it would've been difficult for Tyson to get Holyfield late in their first bout. I meant to say their first bout was winnable for Tyson going in. Holyfield had a game plan and executed a perfect fight. Tyson did not.

I think Tyson could've turned things around in the re and looked to be in better shape as well. He was cautious for the first 2 rounds but opened up in the 3rd, possibly from the butts and unleashing his rage. Anything could happen and I don't think he bit the ear for a way out.

 

It means that two months ago I explained to you what I meant by "newfound right hand."

As for my actual quote " He may have thrown some right hands but never this effectively in volume."

It means what it says, I don't think a deeper interpretation is necessary.

*shakes head*

Where the hell have I made that claim? You are taking an observation I made regarding the difference between the two Bruno fights from 88 and 96, and completely re-branding it.

My actual post:

"What struck me about that fight was Mike's newfound right hand, it made the difference, and was an improvement on the first Bruno fight."

And fair warning, I'm only interested in arguing points I actually made. If you can't do that, I might start tuning out.

 

Tyson returned in 08/95

08/95 Tyson vs McNeely 0 completed rounds
11/95 Evander vs Bowe 7 completed rounds
12/95 Tyson vs Mathis 2 completed rounds
03/96 Tyson vs Bruno 2 completed rounds
05/96 Evander vs Czyz 5 completed rounds
09/96 Tyson vs Seldon 0 completed rounds
11/96 Tyson vs Evander

Regardless of rounds clocked, Tyson had 5 training camps to Evander's 3. If 5 training camps and 4 fights in 15 months didn't shake the rust off, frankly, nothing would.

So was Evander getting knocked out by Bowe and struggling with Czyz really the difference here?

 

Tune out. I don't give a fukc. So you're making an analogy about Tyson throwing more straight rights...just because? What a *****. Pat yourself on the back for making such an observation. Isaac Fukcing Newton over here!

 

I made no analogy and you brought my Bruno fight comparison up from the other thread. WTF

And yes, I'll be tuning out. What's the point? You don't want to argue against what I actually said. You just want to keep assigning these crazy statements to me I never said and expect me to defend them. I don't play that game. What a waste of time.

 

Oh is that right, Newton!

Tyson W DQ 1 McNeeley. In the books they fought a round. Pr1ck.

Bowe KO8 Holyfield. Bowe got him in the 8th. That's why it's called KO 8 and not KO after 7 complete rounds. Geezus Newton!

Tyson KO 3 Mathis...

So, according to you, Tyson scraped off the rust, dust and cobwebs because 5 training camps within 1 1/2 years is etched in stone in the book of boxing laws. It's the law. It negates the 4 years that Tyson was away. How dare we say Tyson was rusty. It goes against the law.

I guess Ali was ready for Frazier after only 2 fights. But wait, it wasn't his 5th bout yet so he was still rusty.

So Holyfield's 3 training camps in 1.5 years, which according to law wipes away the 80 rounds he clocked in since 1991, because he took a year off. You're saying Holyfield was the rusty one, and yet he was more war torn in other posts you make/have made.

I got my eye on you, Newton...

 

Waste of time? You're probably on here all day. Are we mad that we're being exposed?

 

Ok ok. I'll keep it simple. Just answer me these questions with a yes or no and we can move on.
1- Was Mike Tyson a better fighter in '96 than he was in '91?
2- Was Tyson a worse fighter in '96 than he was in '91?
3- Was Tyson the same fighter in '96 as he was in '91?

 

Actually the books would state 1:29 of Round 1.

Like I said... 7 complete rounds. If you are going to make such a big deal about how many rounds they fought, might as well get it right.

Lots of sarcastic embellishments here that makes it difficult to respond. I suppose nowhere is it stated 5 training camps in 15 months is not enough.

I don't believe rust played a factor in the result of Ali vs Frazier. If that's what you are saying, your tantrums and inconsistent sarcasm are making it increasingly difficult to follow you.

I've made it clear that I believe recent history is more relevant.

 

Giving and defending my own opinions is not a waste of time. As stated:

" What's the point? You don't want to argue against what I actually said. You just want to keep assigning these crazy statements to me I never said and expect me to defend them. "

What do you feel you exposed?

 

Not as simple as that.

I believe Ruddock I (91), Holyfield I and Bruno II (96) are on the level or very close. And for the record Holyfield II (97) is actually the best Mike looked since 88, before the ear biting of course.

I always found Ruddock II to be a subar effort from Iron Mike.