review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

Of course not. I don't expect to get an answer out of you because it might bite you in the azz, like when Tyson added a high volume of straight rights to his repertoire against Bruno.

No, they weren't on the same level. Tyson wasn't peak for Ruddock I in 91 but he came into the bout mentally and physically prepared. He wasn't rotting in prison for 3 years and was in boxing shape. Bruno was a statue in their rematch. Tyson looked good because Bruno was so bad. A few months before that Mathis made Tyson look like an amateur, and Mathis wasn't that good either. And no, Mathis wasn't on Tony Tubbs's level either.

Tyson looked good physically against Holyfield in the rematch. He was a little better than their first bout but as good as peak form in 1988? I'm not even going there. You can hang on that branch all by yourself.

Tyson didn't look as good in the Ruddock rematch because it was an on again off again affair and put together at the last second. Another of Don King's shenanigans. Tyson was still able to counter effectively and dominate.

 

I gave a detailed answer.

Yes, I answered that question as well.

Oh boy. We should all be so lucky to rot into this type of shape.

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That's a flawed circular argument. I could easily retort with Bruno looked so bad because Tyson was so good.

So I'll go address the statue criticism, given Bruno is moving around the ring and active, I find it hard to call him a statue.

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I disagree. Tyson gave far more superior effort against Mathis than Bowe did, and Bowe was regarded as the #1 heavyweight in the world in 95. Mathis was more elusive than Tubbs, his upper body movement at this time was the best in the heavyweight division, and easily the best defensive specialist until Byrd came around.

A very good comeback opponent for Tyson. In theory, it could have been a cherry pick gone wrong like the Bowe fight but Tyson adjusted and got him out of there. Bowe caught a very lucky break, it could have easily been a DQ loss instead of a no contest.

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I actually said:

"the best Mike looked since 88" but at this point, you grossly misquoting me should be expected.

Uh huh.

 

The worrying point for Tyson is that in two fights he didn't hurt Holyfield once, if he had Evander in trouble at any points in these fights I could accept the possibility he would have had a great chance in 91.

We know for a fact Holyfield could hurt Tyson, the opposite just isn't true.

 

He did hurt him when he right hooked Holyfield's body then came up with an uppercut to the head. But that's the only time I saw him hurt Holyfield.

 

He wasn't hurt really at all, it caught his attention that's about it.

 

there some good points I'll admit. I not got time to respond to each point but my take remains that Tyson was tougher in 91 than he was in 96, he could take more punishment and that just stands to reason to me. He was younger and active. He may well lose but he would put in a better performance than he would in 96. I can admit he may well lose, why is it so difficult for you to admit maybe Tyson might catch Evander? You are extreme Holy always wins, its a theory I just dont agree with.

His response to getting hurt was different in 91. your clips make a few points but you missed the one of Holyfield hitting him in round two (before the clip you posted), Tyson was stunned and already grabbing Evander early in the fight, he was shocked by this and later in round six he had an expression that looked like he been in a car crash. Whereas against Ruddock he was hurt plenty but finished the fight stronger. I take on board what you say about putting a positive spin to suit an agenda, maybe I am not giving Holyfled full credit as I can agree in 91 he would probably be all over Mike, but I am still not convinced he was big, savvy or strong enough back than to damage Tyson in the same way.

I look at this round of Holyfield fight with Cooper, where Bert had him on the ropes: -

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I see can it in two ways. One that Tyson could have landed that right hand shot (0.57) Cooper caught him with and finished Holy off, it showed he could be vulnerable, in this case, very vulnerable (1.03). On the other hand I look at those uppercuts Holy was landing on Cooper (and Qawi for that matter), and his pure aggression in taking the man out, and I think wow Mike might struggle with that. This is it in a nut shell for me, I can favour both but I will never say Holyfield wins always, no question. Tyson didn't do himself justice in 96, there was more he could have done better going by evidence of his past career. in 91 this fight would have been one of the best wars of all time imo, 96 fight may have been ok but it wasn't close to that status.

I have a point about Tyson's mental state post prison as well. The stable Mike was an act I am sorry to say. It wasn't based on reality, he was surrounded by negative people and still allied to Don King. This reformed Mike is funny stuff. and the real mentality came out. He didn't become a circus for nothing, the good boy act ended when thing didn't go his way, his resent for society and paranoia came out in full force, it was always there after prison but he masked it.

If you choose to believe his book its fairly apparent he had no interest in reforming, he felt he did nothing wrong. He was also begin spoiled in prison and living the life. He even said he didn't want to come out and face the world. Not a great mentality for a boxer about to make his comeback. The fighter that was Mike Tyson was gone at this point, he just became a con man, and the con got found out which is why he couldn't get it together and the circus ensured.

he spat on boxing when he spat out Evander's ear, he had no respect for it. Don't forget he tried to quit out of the first fight with that head butt in round seven, He was mentally shot, don't know how many others ways there are to say it.

yes its all excuses and like I said before, I take this into account with my top 10, but again, the fact remains, he was without a doubt better in 91, mentally and physically. to say otherwise is ignoring what inactivity does to a fighter on top of physiological issues.

 

Why do people bring up the Bert Copper fight to prove that Tyson would hurt Holyfield...... hahahaha

 

Because it is an accurate analogy, you dimwit. Bert Cooper was always a poor man's Tyson. He even tried to throw the same combinations as Mike (albeit, with far less success). Tyson was quicker, faster, more powerful, more accurate, better chin, better defense, and way better stamina. Yet, a drug addled Bert Cooper with less than 10 days notice had Holyfield in deep trouble early in the fight. Almost every person who is picking Tyson to win this matchup is guessing it would happen in the first half of the fight. Even the most ardent Tyson supporters agree that Holyfield's chances for victory increase dramatically if it makes it into the second half of the fight. There is little question that if a prime Tyson had Holyfield in trouble like that, he is MUCH more likely to finish Holy than Bert was.

 

And it is Bert Cooper, not Copper, you moron.

 

Its a fair point, Tyson definitely had trouble putting a dent in Holyfield. As mentioned, round 5 Tyson was landing but he couldn't sustain it, more of those uppercuts would have done the world of good. Its guess work but I thought Holy was hurt but covered it up well. He got caught at other times as well but did an exceptional job of shaking it off.

The other obvious time is the 3rd round of the rematch when Tyson started connecting a bit, it did put Evander on the back foot for once although not really hurt, even when he tried getting the momentum back Tyson seemed too angry to allow it. Problem is Mike couldn't maintain it to actually do some real damage then decided to eat Evander instead.

 

so are us Tyson supports being referred to as "you people" now?

This fight is used a lot as it provides some insight, as other fights do. Notice I didn't just put a positive spin on Tyson, I also used it to show how Holyfield could get the edge as well, so don't really see your problem with it.

Its valid either way. Cooper landed a decent shot and had Evander on the ropes, there is every reason to believe the faster more powerful Tyson could do the same. Its a well trodden theory but is for a reason, there some truth to it. Also how Evander recuperated and landed those uppercuts shows his resolve could be an issue for Mike. To me it shows what a war their fight would have been regardless of who won. Holyfield v Cooper on steroids (no comment....)

 

Hahaha accidents happen whilst writing in direct sunlight at work. I suppose it's alright for you in your mother's bedroom though.....

 

That's like saying Joe Frazier was poor man's Tyson......

The only dimwit is you, only a window licker like yourself could believe Holyfield would fight Tyson like he did Cooper. Holyfield would be much more switched on and would dismantle Tyson.

I can tell it's holidays at the special school ..

 

I'm sure he'll catch him a few times, just as he did in 96. But I wouldn't count on him scoring a knockout or stoppage. Tyson really couldn't put Ruddock away in 91.

This?

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No. Tyson wasn't hurt and I don't see how anyone could read "doubt or pain" into this. I'm not even sure that right hand landed good if at all. Tyson ducked the left hook and crafty Evander spun around him as he did that and stuck his left hand in his face trying to measure him. This forced Tyson to turn and put his back on the ropes. I think Tyson was surprised his opponent spun almost behind him...Evander pulled a Hector Camacho here, at least he didn't hump Mike.

And Tyson accepted the clinch alot against Ruddock as well.

No kidding, he got cut by the butt, put on his ass, and Evander ended the round with a damn Dempsey Roll. Tyson was trying to throw back but couldn't find him, and got tagged about 3 or 4 times clean that had the cut gushing and probably didn't feel too good. Ruddock never put pressure on Tyson like this, not even close. So it's interesting you still want to argue Ruddock was hurting him more.

I look at the whole fight with Bert Cooper which otherwise was masterful boxing from Evander. Evander always had lapses, even in 96. But Evander had fast recovery ability and put a hurt on Cooper after the count. Tyson in contrast, he dropped and hurt Ruddock...3 or 4 times if I'm not mistaken and failed to finish him each time.

So he was just as crazy as he was in 91 when he was telling Ruddock he wanted to kiss his big lips and make him his girlfriend, he just hid it better.

You can't write off Evander's role in that. Evander was a skilled infighter, getting in Tyson's face, hitting his balls, butting his head, hitting him clean, stuffing his punches. He was Mike's most frustrating opponent ever.

And it's not like Mike didn't act out in other fights prior to this. The ear biting was just the worst incident as he was on the path to lose a second straight time.

 

You are amusing, you just keep going through and liking all the Pro-Tyson posts.

Rski is doing fine. But Sangria...come on now.