review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

What's the problem? I'm pro-Tyson, is it illegal to be pro-Tyson?

 

Like I said Rski is doing fine. But Sangria...what do you like about his posts? Are you captivated by his insistence that answered questions weren't answered.

 

Tyson was definitely hurt by that right hand in the second round, it froze him in his tracks for a few seconds.

 

It doesn't look like it. Evander leaned in on the follow through and tried a left hook, that Tyson was aware enough to duck. No freezing up, stopped tracks, or visible facial expressions. I'm not even sure the right hand landed good, there wasn't much room and Tyson got his head down.

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Now the left hook when Tyson was on the ropes. Hurt. He fired back but he was hurt.

[url]https://gifs.com/gif/46-mike-tyson-evander-holyfield-1-GZl9D3[/url]

I don't have a gif at the moment but another instance was in the 1 st round Holyfield landed the triple left hook combo to the body and head. Tyson stops, adjusts his trunks and smiles. He was hurt but it was no different from the times Ruddock caught him, and he smiled or did whatever.

 

I've seen the fight countless times and i believe the right hand stunned him quite badly, you can see the same vacant look in the first fight with Ruddock in the 6th round I believe. The commentary picked up on it too as well as Holyfield.

 

You can't even see his face after the punch, it ends with his forehead in Holyfield's shoulder. He ducks the left hook and his face looks fine. He's aware enough to jump away from Evander who did the Hector Camacho trick.

 

I think I got this right.

Steve Albert: "That left hook missed by Holyfield...he spins Tyson around. Tyson against the ropes"

Bobby Czyz: "I'll tell you what..the crowd thought Mike was hurt!"

Czyz who was Pro-Tyson the whole fight to the point of sounding insane, talking about the fight was even going into the 11th and ****, it sounded to me he was just mocking the crowd for getting excited that Tyson had his back to the ropes.

Regarding Evander, the right hand/left hook combo is just something he does. He had great ring awareness and took the opportunity to spin beside Tyson and force him to the ropes with the outstretched glove.

 

You can see that same glazed stare that he had against Ruddock after being hurt in their first bout. It's hard to explain but if you know you know what I'm talking about.

 

I'm not so sure about that, Its not like Holyfield was beyond getting hurt in 91. If Cooper could get him on the ropes like that it definitely arguable Tyson could as well. Holyfield may recover but the point is Tyson would have more success than he did in 91.

I can see that this has been discussed a bit already but I still maintain Tyson was hurt by that punch. he fought back a bit and looked ragged in doing so but what convinces me is Tyson didn't just hold Holyfield, he near pulled him into the clinch as if he was worried Evander would open up again. The point is he didn't go after Holy again after the attack to even the score, he tried pulling him in. the clip stops before this clinch can be seen.

here is an example of Tyson getting hit by a big punch by Ruddock and his response is different, he rallies right back and doesn't stop, is hit again but still continues to comes forward. I'd argue that he was hit here more than with that punch in round two against Holy but here he just tries to walk through his opponent whilst getting teed of on. he is just more robust here. check this clip out from 4.51: -

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I think Ruddock had some comparable success though when he had Tyson wobbled a few times, another couple of punches and I'm convinced Ruddock could have put him down. In this clip Ruddock lands a hayemaker of a left hand, Tyson is clearly hurt at 6.50: -

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but he comeback strong and continues the fight. I know they are different fighters but the point is Tyson's reaction to getting hit. there's another point where he gets hurt and Ruddock follows up with a few more punches but still cant get him out. bear in mind Ruddock was a massive puncher, Evander would have landed more but would he have the same power, would Tyson just walk through his punches?

a lapse is all it takes though, a fighter could be superb the whole fight and get careless. One thing Tyson was got at was zeroing in once a mistake was made. As soon as he saw Evander hurt he would be all over him. He had fast recovery and it would need to be, I don't rule out him surviving but he would be in trouble for a bit. Its a fair point that Tyson didn't finish Ruddock off but the man was durable, and that becomes another debate as Lewis obviously had him out quick.

what he didn't do before prison was bite a guys ears off. If Ruddock was hitting Tyson like that post prison Mike would have melted down, he wouldn't have taken that punishment is my theory. he always talked a bit of smack and had his issues but as a fighter he had a solid mindset, this is something I believe he lost, and once things didn't go his way he also lost his interest in boxing.

I don't completely write of Evander's role, he exposed Tyson and to be fair, Mike was still dangerous to a degree. He proved he could beat fighters that were below the level of Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe. but Evander showed that Tyson couldn't deal with any pressure if things didn't go his way, he had to take some big punches in the process and show incredible determination.

Mike needed people to be scared of him post prison, he seemed less concerned with this before, he knew some fighters were not intimidated but was still successful. Evander not being scared at this point seemed to spook him and I think its because his main tool of intimidation was taken away, that was a big source of his confidence post prison I think, because he wasn't totally sure of himself. he was basically the bully everyone accused him of being, although I don't believe this was always true of him in his previous career.

 

You can't even see his eyes. You can glimpse his face from an angle well after the punch, when Evander spins him, his facial expression is the same as it was before the punch. There is no physical indicators Tyson is hurt here, let alone deep readings of "self doubt"

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Good analysis, good argument can be made that Holyfield had actually slipped more than Tyson

 

Here is the full sequence.

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As I stated Tyson was rocked back by the left hook and appeared to be hurt. But he responded very well. He parried Holyfield's right hand and and tried a counter right. He than ducks under Evander's counter left hook and tries his own left hook. It's a great exchange from both men.

Now it's Evander that initiates the clinch after blocking the left hook, he pushes his weight on Tyson. But when Evander lets him go, Tyson locks his arm and forces the ref to separate them. I would say Mike did that so he could get off the ropes and not let Holyfield keep him trapped there. Very smart move by Tyson.

I just don't see this "doubt" nonsense. You can't even see his face. And when it's all over, he struts over to Evander in his normal manner and launches a right hand.

In the situation above, Ruddock hits Tyson with a left hook/uppercut. Tyson grabs his arm, clinching, and Ruddock pushes him off. Ruddock misses a punch and Tyson misses some pretty sloppy bombs. They run into each and accept each other's clinch to reset.

Tyson steps in and tries to clinch, Ruddock steps back and misses with wild haymakers. Credit to Tyson for evading them seemingly on instinct.

The two clips above Tyson certainly didn't walk through anything. He reacts by clinching or trying to clinch. While Ruddock is able to get Mike off, the fact Tyson got those little recovery breaks is all the difference. That's just the difference between Evander's crisp short hook and Ruddock's wind ups.
Evander lands the left hook, his right hand is already on the way. Ruddock lands the left hand...if I may project..."DAH, gimme my hand back, I want to smash you....okay, now I smash you..where did you go?"

And Evander was durable.

I do not buy that for a minute. The whole bully theory is a good story but not THE story of these fights. Evander didn't win because he was fearless, he won because he was a superior infighter with a higher ring IQ.

Look at these clips, it's little things like Evander doing the Camacho spin and getting Tyson trapped on the ropes that won this fight.

 

You don't need to see his eyes, he just stares straight through Holyfield as he spins around him, go and watch what I believe is the 6th round of the first Ruddock bout where he does the same when stunned by the Smash.

After Holyfield lands that shot he does a little jig, it was the same kind of thing as Joe Frazier dusting his shorts off after getting dropped by Foreman.

I can't believe not many people can see Tyson was stunned by that right hand, it's as clear as day to me.

 

I still think Holy wins, for the reasons I stated previously. It would be closer, but Holy would get the job done.

 

You can't see his eyes and his head follows Holyfield's movement.

His feet remain planted and he doesn't pick them up until Evander misses the left hook and shuffles behind him.

If that right hand even landed, there just aren't any visual after effects. Let alone these "far away stares" and "looks of doubt" being sold.