review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

Who said anything about a look of doubt? He was visibly stunned by the right hand that's about it, the crowd, commentary and Evander himself picked up on it that's why he opened up on Tyson.

 

"looks of Doubt" was the other guy but it's no different than the "far away stare" claim.

As I said: the crowd didn't react to the right hand. The commentary didn't react the right hand. And why should they? It doesn't appear to land and even if it did, there is no visible effect on Tyson.

Come on, I actually transcribed the damn commentary. The crowd goes wild when Evander spins off the missed punch and Tyson ends up on the ropes and they start exchanging, and they get really excited when Holyfield..you know, actually lands a left hook that appears to stun Tyson.

What I think you are doing is...mixing up the landed left hook that actually got a reaction out of Tyson with the right hand that didn't do anything....n your memory. Or maybe you did that initially and now, just stubbornly arguing. The video is right there.

 

We will have to agree to disagree, I can't help it if it goes straight over your head. I knew it stunned him from watching it live and every clip I've seen since then does not change my opinion.

 

Tyson under Rooney would have beat Holyfield, but once Rooney's left, he stopped headweaving, rarely throws a jabs, less body punches and the only thing that left was that predictable leaping hooks.

However, Mike was still capable of fighting for 12 rounds before prison. Brooks said Tyson only trained for 2 weeks for Holyfield fight and still went 12 rounds.

Tyson that beat Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock , I'd say he has a 50:50 change for beating Holyfield.

 

The funny thing is you actually believe all that bull****.......

 

lol I would partly say you are seeing it to fit your agenda. Its not just Tyson's face, to me his whole demeanour during that sequence shows he was stunned by a very sneaky right hand (before the missed left hook) for a short instance and backed towards the ropes after turning.

If he wasn't hurt at all then why didn't he fire back straight away whilst he was still fresh, he had the opportunity? that is exactly what he did against Ruddock, got buzzed but waded back in immediately with his own offence. After one punch from Holy in round two all Tyson did was get turned and back towards the ropes. He wasn't totally out of it and recovered fairly quickly to exchange with Holyfield but it showed his different response to getting hit, to me anyway.

Anyway it seems we hit a dead end on this one as I am still convinced Tyson was buzzed in that round two, I remember thinking it at the time when I watched the fight live.

As for the Ruddock exchanges I appreciate that you acknowledge some of Tyson's work there when he was getting hurt, whatever is said about Tyson he did show in the Ruddock fights he could indeed fight back when hurt, this is often overlooked by his critics.

Its a good point you make about Tyson getting the break after Ruddock lands, he would definitely have got hit more by Evander and had less time to reset. but I still wonder if Ruddocks power negates this a bit, not all of his offence was one punch either when you examine the fight, some of his combinations had hard follow up punches but Tyson was still there. Its a fair point though and I consider it when talking about this fight. My only questions in this respect are would Holyfield be able to hurt him even though he did throw more, also would the fire power he receives back have any effect on this. It boils down to the fact I believe Tyson would be more effective than he was in 96, I think he would land more. You seem to believe he was the same pre and post prison I can see you wont follow that argument.

Its tough to argue this I'll admit. Ruddock lasted the distance so why wouldn't the arguably better chinned Holyfield. All I can think is the style argument. Being smaller Evander will be exchanging more in close quarters, especially if he gets tempted to brawl with Tyson. This could mean getting caught and hurt enough for Tyson to finish him off, and Mike would need to. Its not like it inst possible, Holyfield has been hurt, even by fighters with less power than Tyson.

I do also believe Ruddock gets a lot of stick for the Lewis loss, I feel he was more durable before that fight, it was apparent his punch resistance went down in his following fights. also again it could be a style thing, the taller Lewis was able to land those longer range shots.

I agree Evander won in 96 because of his skills and the fact he is a warrior. I was just going back to talking about Tyson's mindset after prison. I don't see how it could be the same personally.

 

I took it upon myself to slow the footage down. The right hand clearly makes no contact with Tyson's head.

https://streamable.com/mtvsh

 

Are you blind? It clearly hits him behind the ear near the temple area, I don't know what else to say.

Can you show the whole sequence after the shot has landed?

 

It's not even a punch. It's an attempt that is horribly smothered without any extension.

I already have, quite a few times.

In the face of video evidence, just let this one go, man. It's pretty ridiculious when you are still clinging to this in the face of slow motion video that shows you are wrong.

I'm more interested in the left hook that everyone in the crowd could see hurt Tyson.

 

Like with Wass. It's time to let this one go. The right hand got smothered and appears to make no contact with Tyson's head.

https://streamable.com/mtvsh

Well I can tell you now he wasn't hurt. This right hand you guys keep going on about didn't even land. I'm not sure why both of you are so adamant on this one "attempted" punch. Even if it did land, Tyson showed no ill effects. And just a few moments later, Tyson gets blown backwards by a clean punch you don't need slow motion to show, it brings the damn crowd out of their feet, they saw Tyson get hurt from the cheap seats. So why the fixation on this damn right hand that don't land...

As for Tyson not responding. I'm going to speculate that the arms we can't see are locked up by Evander...because that's an Evander move and what appears to happen. He hooks your right arm when yin close, then will release you and suddenly fire the left hook while your arm is down. Tyson ducked it, but surprise, Evander stepped behind him and tried to measure him, driving him back.

Now I showed a clip earlier where Tyson sucked up a clean Ruddock power shot and responds immediately. Tyson does this against Ruddock and Holyfield. As I've explained the difference is Ruddock was always vulnerable after he threw a punch, Evander rarely was.

If we are talking the actual point in Round 2 where Tyson gets stunned. There isn't a difference. He takes the shot and fires back. If he's able, Tyson will always throw back.

He does in fact get buzzed. By a left hook as I've shown multiple times. It knocks him back into the ropes but he has presence of mind to parry Evander's follow up and fight back.

Alot of Tyson's work is overlooked because people want to push simplified storylines. Someone standing up to the big bad bully who just can't take it. Not as simple as that.

I think its' a size thing. Ruddock was able to wrestle and clinch Tyson when he got buzzed, Lewis was too big for that.

 

You must have **** holes for eyes because the right hand clearly landed and clearly stunned Tyson.

Why the hell do you think Holyfield started opening up on him? He sensed he had him hurt from that shot so followed it up.

 

Say what?
How can you deny it made contact?

 

Because it hit Tyson's shoulder and it's not even an extended punch.

 

Just above and behind left ear for me....definately head shot imo.
Could be a good poll topic?

 

It doesn't even move his head. There is nothing there to indicate he was "clearly stunned" It's debatable if it should even count as a punch, let alone a clearly landed one that clearly stunned Tyson.

He didn't open up on him.