review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

That's why I believe Ali is the best heavyweight of all time. He could enter a fight out of shape and underprepared and still find the way to win or put in a great losing effort. He had failing health for years before his retirement yet stayed at the top. I think it's fair to say he never actually was as dedicated or trained as hard as a young Tyson. Holyfield mentioned Mike trained like a demon and was the only fighter he knew that trained as hard as himself.

 

I read the whole thing and you did an excellent job. :good You've constructed incredibly well formed arguments based on facts as well as detailed, and often unmentioned, highlights of the actual fight. You also remind me of a few of my friends who share your ana1ysis and insight to a T.

Welcome aboard!

 

I've dissected this argument from every conceivable angle for 25 years. I was always a fan of both fighters but always a bigger Holyfield fan. I found myself in the great minority back in the day by always thinking Holyfield would've given Tyson a great fight.. Most were consistently not giving Holy credit for beating fighters like The drug-free and completely rejuvenated Michael Dokes (possibly as good a effort as he ever produced) Or unbeaten at the time Alex Stewart who did I mention had scored every victory at the time by KO. Then he wipes out Douglas, gets no credit because Douglas was out of shape.. Beats Foreman, no credit Foreman was an old man. Signs to fight Tyson, Tyson pulls out he has a scare against Cooper everyone assumes if Cooper could hurt him Tyson would destroy him.. Cooper of course was his third opponent scheduled at that point after Tyson and then Damiani both pulled out. Beats Larry Holmes who is impossible to look good against and once again gets criticized for beating another old man. I will say Tyson looked good beating Larry but that was about as unprepared a version of homes as you'll find in his career. What's the point for this history lesson, me putting you into the frame of mind of a Evander Holyfield.. All this man heard his entire career was you cannot beat Mike Tyson!! I got news for everyone he beats Mike Tyson no matter when they fight.

Now I respect everyone's opinion but like I said I watched both of these men during their entire career. I sat ringside and had the privilege of watching both of them fight, not against each other but in other fights in their careers. Holyfield had the answer to beating Mike Tyson. Styles make fights, you must possess a few key elements when taking down Mike Tyson which Holy did.

1. Don't back down the "fear" element
Not an issue at any point in Holys career

2. Chin - check strong as they come and if you did hurt him see #3

3. Heart - Guts - Will to win YUP!!

4. Versatility in your game, polished enough to box but rough enough to slug.

If it's a war he wins, if they box he wins he does everything better than Tyson.. Tyson is a harder puncher with one shot and that's about it but that would be completely neutralized by Holys toughness and chin and desire to beat Mike Tyson.. It doesn't matter when they fought at any point in their careers once Tyson hit Holyfield he was going to get hit back and pushed back and taken into deep waters where Holyfield would always drown him.. How many fights did Holyfield have where he faced adversity and came back like a champion? The actual real question is how many did Mike Tyson have and win?

Like I said everyone is entitled to their opinion but I have no doubt in my mind who would've always won this fight and we all know who did win this fight when it actually happened..

 

Holyfield would have whupped him in 91 same way he whupped him in 96 and then then forced to Mike to get himself DQ'ed in 97 after realizing he was in for another beating after the first 2 rounds.

 

Holyfield was considered shot before the Tyson fight and people feared for his life.
He was more past it than Tyson

 

Good post and welcome to the site :good

 

When it comes to heart and will to win, that becomes a moot point if you are over matched. Holyfield had all the will in the world against Bowe but it wasn't enough in that first fight, so he is not infallible. If he is hit by hard uppercuts he can be hurt, Tyson threw these well.

I agree with a lot of points stated in this ****ysis but take a more central view these days, I also see a Holyfield victory in there somewhere. But I don't get this Holyfield invulnerable stuff, he wasn't (this is also a fact) and prime Tyson did have the ability to hurt him in my view, even 91 Tyson had the speed and power to do damage.

If Ruddock after landing full power shots endlessly on Tyson couldn't get him out of there I have a hard time believing Holyfield would hurt him enough for the KO. People forget that Tyson was a lot less easy to discourage before prison. Its hard to defend Tyson because of his post prison career thats for sure, but when you look there is evidence to suggest the man wont fold after being hit a few times. :roll:

Great opening post byw :good

 

Holyfield proved in their actual fight that he had more than enough power to seriously hurt Tyson, in fact Tyson named him as one of the hardest punchers he faced.

 

I'm not sure those same shots would have the same effect back in 91, Tyson's conditioning and having not taken a decent punch for four years played a bit of a role imo. Tyson would also have administered more punishment himself which would have effected Holyfield's own output. In the 96 fight Holyfield was pretty much free the rest and punch as he wanted, which I am not sure would happen in 91

The way I see that 96 fight is Tyson had no chance. Holyfield was so up for that fight, it was what he whole career built up to whereas Tyson just saw Evander as another weak opponent. Mentally he just wasn't in the right mindset for the challenge that faced him, he couldn't deal with any resistance. The way Tyson handled this was very stupid, it appeared he trained better for Bruno, although I dont believe any post prison Tyson would beat Holyfield. Its on him at the end of the day and I can understand why people would always back Holyfeild as it was such a dominant win.

I dont think Holyfield was a weak puncher in 91 by any means, I feel it very possible that cumulative punishment may well have worn Tyson down if he managed to survive Tyson's own offence but I am not entirely convinced of that. Depending on my mood day to day I see a win either side, that's why I feel they are pretty evenly matched rather than one of them beating the other 100 times out of 100.

I think there would have been a few fights between them prime wise, Tyson's mindset was just different. he dealt with loss better in 90 than he did 96. Could have been a to and throw thing?

 

I'm sure, Holyfield always hit hard at heavyweight. His power is massively underrated, George Foreman mentioned Holyfield hit him with some of the best body shots he ever received. Tyson also included him in the list of bangers he faced.

You actually believe Tyson thought Holyfield was just another weak opponent? Tyson always knew and always said Holyfield was an amazing fighter, they'd known just how great each other was for other 10 years by the time they met.

I really do wish we'd had seen that fight in 91, definitely in the top 5 of my dream fight list.

 

I dunno about Holyfield's power in early 90s, he bounced about 20 punches off Forman's head and couldn't get him out of there, goes for a lot of other fighters he fought to. You can argue George had an all time jaw I guess but I never saw Holy as a concussive puncher, more cumulative which is obviously still very effective. Though he did seem to have more one punch power later. I take what fighters say about each other with a pinch of salt to be honest, they seem to compliment fighters they like and discount others they don't.

yes I very much believe Tyson felt 96 Holyfield was easy meat. I do also believe Tyson had tremendous respect for Evander but he felt he was another deluded old time fighter, a spent force.
Everyone but their aunt was saying how Holy had heart issues and looked terrible his last fight, feared for his life etc. I reckon Tyson believed it, he said himself he thought he was just going to "oblivate" Holyfield, as he put it, I have a clip somewhere.
That doesn't suggest respect to me, you dont think you are going to walk though a fighter you respect. That right there was the wrong mind set, and Tyson's own fault. In reality he needed to be in the best shape and mindset he could get into for that fight.

I agree re the 91 fight taking place. Tyson and Holyfield at their peak is probably my number one fantasy fight, I think their styles at that time would have made a war.