review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Jun 7, 2016.


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  1. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We will disagree on Holyfield's power, dropping Bowe, Mercer etc. Stopping Tyson and hurting him early on. I think it's fair to say he hit plenty hard enough IMO.

    Tyson said a lot of things, he said he was going to eat Lewis's children once. No way in hell did Tyson take Holyfield lightly and if he did how come in the rematch the fight was panning out just like the first? Tyson knew he couldn't beat this man.
     
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    #76
  2. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah all those things you mentioned to prove evanders power happened after he packed on 10 pounds of muscle that he wouldnt have in 1991

    At the lighter weight he needed 10 rounds of consecutive clean power shots to put away dokes, who got one punch KO by a guy whos best shots tyson took while asking for more and then taking him out in the very next round.
    He also failed to drop alex stewart, even though stewart was standing there letting evander hit him while he dis nothing to gain evanders respect, moorer dropped stewart several times while being outweighed by 15 pounds. So if evander can stop tyson(who has a much better chin, defense than these guys) then does moorer wipe tyson out in one?
     
    Contro, Jun 9, 2016
    Contro, Jun 9, 2016
    #77
    Sangria likes this.
  3. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At 10 pounds lighter than 1996:
    Evander was hurt by dokes to the body (and guess who is still a very good body puncher in 1991 and much more dangerous offensively than dokes in every way)
    Hurt BAD by cooper (guess who hits as hard if not harder but does so in combinations, much faster, in greater variety and does not gas out as easy)

    By the mid to late 90s evander could shrug off shots from lennox lewis, mike tyson and ray mercer

    See the difference?
     
    Contro, Jun 9, 2016
    Contro, Jun 9, 2016
    #78
  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It doesn't work like that I'm afraid, Holyfield knocked Rodriguez out worse than Foreman. That doesn't mean Evander hit harder than George does it? Tyson hit Tillis with everything he had but couldn't get him out of there, Holyfield did. Does that mean Evander hits harder than Tyson?
     
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    #79
  5. turnip

    turnip Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At the time I thought tyson would stop holy early especially after seeing him against Cooper.knowing how mentally and physically tough vander was iam now not so sure I know holy wouldn't back down when they were amateurs beating him at pool at not taking any cr@p from Mike I think was always nervous around holy and if he couldn't stop him early I vander would slowly break Mike down and stop him late .
     
    turnip, Jun 9, 2016
    turnip, Jun 9, 2016
    #80
  6. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How come tyson had all the hype around him. And holyfield in comparison didnt.

    Were all the people wrong?

    If holyfield was so good why werent we hearing all the hype being around him.

    And did any bookmakers have odds for the proposed 1991 fight?
     
    bbjc, Jun 9, 2016
    bbjc, Jun 9, 2016
    #81
  7. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Err, have a good think about it......
     
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    Wass1985, Jun 9, 2016
    #82
  8. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i nearly always thought holyfield was going to beat tyson, as soon as he turned heavyweight. he was so class in the ring, every punch in the book, with the heart to match (we all knew this by '88), that he was the only legit opponent for tyson.. the only man that could possibly beat him at that time, it seemed. who didn't think holyfield would/could ratchet it up a notch for tyson? no thinking man.

    it's kind of interesting that for their rematch, they both looked much sharper than in their first fight. they both trained well and serious- like a throwback to '91 is what it was looking like. holyfield was cheated of an all-time ko victory in '97 and maybe even in '91.
     
    slash, Jun 9, 2016
    slash, Jun 9, 2016
    #83
  9. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I m a big fan of holyfield. Absolute great fighter that didnt really get the credit he deserved. But have people forgot how good tyson was coming through. The youngest heavyweight champion ever. The man that was trained from about 14 to be the youngest heavyweight champion ever. When holyfield was training like an amatuer mike was training like a professional. In 91 tyson would have beat him and thats with tyson on the slide after rooney left.

    In recent years theres been a rewriting of history. Tyson couldnt get sparring partners or even partners that lasted any length of time. Recently we re hearing that lewis got the better of him plus evander. And just tonite i ve read glen mcgrory got the better of him. Soon it ll be marvis frazier battered him in sparring.

    The 96 version of tyson that holyfield did defeat wasnt the same fighter. Theres no comparison between 96 tyson and say 88 tyson. We all know that tyson diminished pretty quickly and if you look close enough the reasons are there to see.

    Holyfield had the better career.
    But tyson at or around his best would have beat him.
     
    bbjc, Jun 9, 2016
    bbjc, Jun 9, 2016
    #84
  10. UFC2015

    UFC2015 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not harder but more effective puncher. He rated Holyfield as the best Counter puncher he faced in his entire career.
     
    UFC2015, Jun 9, 2016
    UFC2015, Jun 9, 2016
    #85
  11. UFC2015

    UFC2015 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holyfield's victory over Tyson is much more credible than Lewis's.
     
    UFC2015, Jun 9, 2016
    UFC2015, Jun 9, 2016
    #86
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Holy had Tysons number. The bully found someone he could not bully.
     
    Perry, Jun 9, 2016
    Perry, Jun 9, 2016
    #87
    Bonecrusher likes this.
  13. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    why are there such bad vibes around holyfield-tyson? those two just didn't fit, right from the start- 1984.

    it's like tyson was going to run his mouth and holyfield was incapable of letting it go. bad chemistry.
     
    slash, Jun 9, 2016
    slash, Jun 9, 2016
    #88
  14. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You have to actually watch the fight, realize the circumstances and look at how clean and how often Evanders opponents get hit before he manages to hurt them.

    Tillis was washed up, tyson was his last stand. he was not nearly as mobile in this fight as he was vs tyson, he was also more aggressive and therefore easier to hit, if tyson had landed the exact same combinations on tillis is would not have lasted a round. I believe holyfields reputation as a mediocre hitter, actually helped him hurt some opponents since they were willing to take risks against someone they thought couldnt hurt them.
    Also Mike was 19 and he had an ear infection before the fight against tillis i believe.

    Regarding rodrigues, foreman got the job done against a much more cautious rodrigues, with alot less total shots landed. I also believe the way rodrigues got KO'd had to do with how his head hit the canvas on the way down. Evander never did that to another opponent again, closest thing was the douglas fight and douglas just quit.

    Both tillis and adilson were not very good fighters, despite rodrigues high ranking at the time. I am comparing evanders power to HIMSELF later in his carreer against proven and CONSISTENT fighters.

    And the fact is that evander had big trouble putting away less durable, more hittable fighters than mike, who were unable to put him on the defensive.
    Look at how often he hit pinklon thomas!! Pinklon had no reflexes and although he had a great chin at one time in his carreer, mike tyson almost certainly cracked it. Mike tyson almost had him out after the first round. Evander was landing 4 punch combinations to the head of pinklon, tyson had him hurt with single shots(he did put him away with a barrage though)

    again evander is not a light hitter. i would rate his punch for punch power a 6/10 early as a HW and then 7-7.5/10 from the 2nd bowe fight on.
    He has all the will and heart in the world, just not the firepower to keep mike off of him, let alone stop him(at this point) doesnt have the muscle yet to bully tyson around and do the things that won him the first fight. He does not yet have the experience and smarts to do the right thing when hurt which is survive the round or fight a disciplined fight against mike. Evander himself said "i dont want to get hit it just happens" thats gonna get him killed against someone who is more dangerous offensively in every aspect than every fighter that hurt evander before he bulked up.
    And he is fighting a far more skilled, faster, active and much more hungry and determined Tyson than the one he beat in 1996.
     
    Contro, Jun 10, 2016
    Contro, Jun 10, 2016
    #89
  15. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lets be honest, Thomas could have gotten up against Tyson but he'd had enough and didn't fancy taking anymore punches. Tyson hit Tillis with plenty of clean shots, can you recall that fearsome exchange they had when Tyson thought he had him?

    You can't compare Holyfield's 91 power to his 96 power though. True he did drop Bowe in their rubber match but he also had him hurt in their very first fight. Douglas was way more hurt against Holyfield than he was against Tyson do you not agree?

    How can you question Holyfield's ability to hurt Tyson when he stopped the man when they fought? He had Mike hurt as early as the second round and he was completely gone at the end of the 10th round.
     
    Wass1985, Jun 10, 2016
    Wass1985, Jun 10, 2016
    #90
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