review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Jun 7, 2016.


  1. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Evander had tysons number"
    "Holyfield had the mentality to beat Tyson"
    "Tyson was just a bully, Holyfield just stood up to him"

    How does having the right mentality, and standing up to him help evander if he's tied to the ring post and Tyson brings a shotgun to the ring?

    Thats how i feel about the difference in pure offensive firepower in this hypothetical fight.
    Its only his extraordinary resilience and toughness that makes me think he would last until maybe the 9th round. He could hang on until the final bell but he is not the type to just try to survive. It would turn into a firefight earlier than later and then he is just going to be outgunned.


    Those who say evander always had tysons number or that he "had the mentality to beat tyson" and that he would beat him at any point in their careers should REALLY ****yze the actual fight in 1996, take note of the strategy and tools(or lack thereof)displayed by the guy he was facing and what tools and factors won the fight for Evander,
    Evander did not out-tough mike tyson like he did dokes and cooper. He fought a much smarter fight than that and frankly to reduce his performance that night to simply being the tougher man is ignoring that mike tyson, without the tools that made him mike tyson instead of another come forward brawling punching bag like bert cooper, is basically fighting with his hands behind his back. Saying that all evander had to do was stand up to tyson and could have done the same thing in 1991 IS AN INSULT to the work he had to do to gain that muscle and strength to shake off those big shots and dominate mike tyson in his clinches, and AN INSULT to the dozens of grueling rounds at the top level against big hitters, which taught him when to clinch to recover, when to rest, to conserve his energy and pick his spots, his skilled counter punching that let him time tyson rushing in, his craftyness in the clinches, using his head to cut, daze and frustrate mike, holding his left hook arm to prevent him from getting off. He had to develop these tools AFTER mike went to prison when courage alone was not enough to win against elite fighters who could make him pay dearly for being reckless.
     
  2. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can guarantee if you put Evander in the ring now with Mike or in 10 years time he'd still be the victor.
     
  3. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are correct that timing in very important

    Just because fighter A beats fighter B, it does not necessarily mean that fighter A would have always defeated fighter B regardless of timing of the fight.
     
  4. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Exhibit A that Holyfield's power probably wouldn't be enough to seriously hurt Tyson, if this fight happened in '91, is the fact he hit Cooper with everything but the kitchen sink and couldn't drop him.

    Tyson would not get hit nearly as much as Cooper did.

    Tyson stood up to Ruddock's best shots - Ruddock in 91 hit harder than Holyfield.

    In '89, Holyfield hit Dokes a lot in an all out war and went tooth and nail before finally wearing him down.

    The only guys he took out in (apparently) devastaing fashion in this time frame were an overrated Rodriguez and a fat, apparently unmotivated, Douglas, who appeared to be looking for a place to lie down so he could quickly collect his $24 million.
     
  5. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yet Tyson couldn't keep Douglas down the year before.....
     
  6. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    To be honest i cant explain the tillis, green and ribalta fights lasting as long as they did I mean he really did hit them with ALOT of good shots. But later on he KO'd alot of good fighters who were known to have very solid beards.

    I think Thomas was gone, that was an incredibly brutal KO's. maybe a dozen full power shots on his exposed chin.
    He actually did "kind of" beat the count, angelo dundee stepped in.
    Holyfield had bowe a little wobbled after bowe had punched himself out. He couldnt move or make him respect him all night before that.
    When you're punched out like bowe, tyson or cooper and the other guy is unloading on you, its not that the guy is hitting you so hard, its that you cant do anything about it and he's hitting you CLEAN.
    That little spin into the ropes and then straight punch by holyfield was not a big deal in my opinion compared to all the other shots he took, Tyson has taken much bigger shots by huge punchers lewis and ruddock. Yes at the end of the 10th something in him just gave and he couldnt take it anymore, but fatigue and lack of conditioning played a large role too. I mean he couldnt drop him with a headshot. And to be honest i dont think there is any man who could take as many unanswered, FULLY LOADED UP and CLEAN shots to the face from tyson without going to sleep. I mean he barely blocked a single one of those. Being that tired is the same is as sticking your chin out like mayorga did against trinidad and tyson vs ruddock. You let a 215 pound man hit you flush that often of course youre gonna get hurt, doesnt mean evander has that much power, or that he would even be able to land those shots in 91

    and yes you can compare the power from 91 to 96, the muscle that evander gained is the like the difference between a welterweight and a middleweight, I mean logic alone tells you he hit harder at a higher weight. thats like comparing someone to their little brother
     
  7. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    He dropped Cooper in round 1 with a perfect left hook to the body, one of the best punches in his ****nal.. Yes Cooper took everything after that but Holyfield pummeled him and did stop him, similar to the way he pummeled Tyson in round 10 and again at the fights conclusion in round 11, Mike didn't hit the canvas in the 10th or 11th but it didn't matter because he was gone, just like he'd of been in 91 vs Holyfield as well.
     
  8. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You mean mike now with evander now? Yeah obviously he didnt retire until 2014. Mike did not keep in shape.
     
  9. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I mean in 10 years time also, Holyfield is the superior fighter plain and simple IMO
     
  10. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with both statements.
    Tyson's style was dependant on youth and speed. The further they get away from their primes the more of an advantage evander has. But considering evander had not yet reached his full size and strength, he was in essence not "fully grown" even though he was starting or about to start aging by the time he finished getting bigger. He was not fully developed physically or mentally(as in the way he fought, his discipline to stick to a gameplan and ring smarts) at 1991, despite approaching 30 years old. And he sure as heck did not keep evolving as a fighter because he was getting old, he got bigger stronger and smarter because he HAD TO. Because thats what it took to keep winning against heavyweights who had a punch, had a means of delivering it and could take one as well.
    Thats why i think Tyson would win at this point. Tyson had peaked already and evander was not yet at his best(his best being better than tyson but him in 1991 not yet)
     
  11. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie booted

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    Thanks for putting so eloquently the same as I attempted to say in very few words. I hope morons and fan boys don't label you a blind hater too.
     
  12. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie booted

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    I FIRMLY believe that Tyson would have lost to any, and every Heavyweight from Joe Louis until the present day who was prepared to hit him back as often, or more often than he hit them. I further believe that this is totally down to his bully boy mentality. As far as I am concerned Tyson was NOT a natural fighter, rather a manufactured product of his 2 svengali's, Old Tomato and Kevin Rooney. I am genuinely pleased for you that you are friends with his son, and I sincerely hope he has more of his mothers genes than his fathers, at least then the boy has a chance in life. And I am afraid ALL s"x offenders are indeed sub human filth, whether you find that offensive, or not.
     
  13. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie booted

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    People in the car park could see Ruddock's shots coming, never mind the other guy in the ring. Please do not compare someone as crude and one dimensional as him with Holyfield. It is totally unnecessary.
     
    dawnofthedead likes this.
  14. clark

    clark Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Exactly.
     
  15. rski

    rski Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not comparing. Talking about punishment Tyson could take pre prison. Forget the car park, Ruddock landed hard shots and Tyson took them. he was even hurt but didn't get discouraged, something missing post prison. Shows different mindset. I believe he could have taken what Evander dished out to a degee
     


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