Reviewing "Ali-Frazier 1" right now outta tribute to Joe Frazier's death....

Frazier's rematch with Foreman was just him cashing out out of the sport with a nice payday.If you know you don't stand a chance of winning and are in a position to make alot of money,why bother training your keester off? Frazier fought Foreman like a man who was doing his best to survive and avoid taking as much punishment as possible.

 

Ali couldn't do a thing with Frazier...if it wasn't for Joe Frazier...there wouldn't have been a fight...he did all the fighting that night...Ali lying on the ropes...Joe kicked kicked his ass...Frazier left everything he had in the ring that night...he was never the same again...a draw?...not the fight I saw that night 40 years ago in 1971...

 

Absolutely,MRBILL ! The judge who scored it 11 - 4 needed an eye test,big time.

 

And Joe was totally shot after Manila. Foreman-Frazier 2 was very sad to watch.

 

Hell, this is getting worse and worse. You're down on General level now. The Frazier bug is biting down hard on some, it seems.

I, as you well know, didn't take issue with your scorecard, only this prissy response to someone with a different score:

Anyone who knows his boxing knows this was a gruelling tough and bitterly hard fought fight, no matter what their final scorecard is.

 

Nice try. But no go.

Ali was landing dozens of clean, hard shots, porbably permantly damaging Frazier, and that is certainly more than just "piling up his own bull****". Well, for anyone who know what they was watching that is.

Nah. "Fussy and prim, esp in a prudish way" works just fine for how you Frazier fans get your panties in a bunch whenever someone contradicts that Frazier walked right all over a more or less prime Ali, but still was so badly damaged after this one-sided victory that his subsequent losses (especially to Ali) don't really count.:yep

 

I think 11-4 is a bit of a stretch, but it's still perfectly sane I guess.

 

Ever thought of going into politics? I mean, when we're talking about piling up bull**** and all.:smoke

But you know you really wanted to.

 

That's more like it.:good

 

Ali was far to rusty to keep Frazier off of him. He expended all his energy winning the early rounds, and was barely able to hold Joe off late.

I had it 8-7 in rounds for Joe with a 10-8 in round 11 and round 15, but a 3 point margin for victory doesn't quite say how in command he was at the end. Besides round 9, Ali expended himself winning the first part of the fight by virtue of more clean punches landed, and when Frazier took over, he ended looking ready to stop Ali.

The fight made it clear that a 12 round fight is Ali all day, but when you gave a peak Joe those extra 3 rounds, you had better be in some kind of shape and want that win as much as you need to breathe, because if not, he'll run you over. If he could do it to the GOAT heavyweight, even a slightly faded version of him, he stands a great chance to do it to any heavy who ever fought.

In the rematch, Joe ran out of rounds and was soundly outpointed. He wasn't hurt outside of getting badly shaken in the 2nd, but he was outboxed and outscored rather clearly, coming on too late. An extra 3 rounds might have made all the difference here.

In Thrilla, both guys were quite faded, but Ali was less so and actually matched Frazier in attitude and desire to win violently. Both guys gave and gave and took and took, but handspeed and Joe's declining ability to defend himself adequately were the difference: Ali had to soak up raw hellfire, but never really missed, and eventually rearranged Joe's face severely enough to impair him, and completely took over.

What's amazing is Ali gave Joe horrific beatings in the FOTC and Thrilla, and it seemed to actually feed Smoke. The more he got hit, the more the fire in him grew, and he went back with greater ferocity. In the 14th round in Manila, on the verge of being stopped, Joe is lunging at Ali snarling with his punches, desperately trying to walk through big right hands to get one more crack at his foe.

Joe Frazier had some deficiencies and was beatable on paper, but unless you had unreal knockout power and strength(Foreman is one of 3 or 4 heavyweights who have a prayer of doing that to Frazier), you were going to have to suffer an insane amount of punishment from a foe coming right at you throwing left hand haymakers till his arm falls off, looking to murder you with each one. Rewatching Joe's fights with Ali and his best wins aside, its clear to me that only the super special heavy's need apply to challenge him: Without that kind of champions heart and will, You would need to be of that early knockout capable variety or just stand no chance.

The summary of my rant: Joe ate souls. The end.

 

The difference is, Muhammad Ali sometimes did not look as good. Because he was lazy, and he was not a hard trainer. He picked and choose when he wanted to over extend, a training camp for Muhammad Ali was sometimes like a fitness party. Some training, and then some partying, this is exactly what he did in the Thriller in Minillia.

Only when Muhammad Ali was put into real fear did, he over extend during training.

Joe Frazier was a hard trainer all the time!

 

There were times when Joe had to be locked out of the gym.